Nearly two months after the Town of Mooresville ordered two audits of the Cops for Kids financial records, the second accounting firm has not been hired.
The town needs to hire a second firm to corroborate the findings of the first firm, Carolina Financial Investigations, which is in the process of reviewing the Cops for Kids financial documents.
The town has apparently been wrangling since July with a second company, Greer & Walker LLP, over language in a “letter of engagement,” which basically serves as a contract between the firm and the town. “We’ve been trying to obtain and negotiate a letter of engagement since mid-July,” Town Finance Director Maia Setzer told the town board in its regular monthly meeting last night.
Commissioner Chris Carney said if the letter doesn’t benefit the Town of Mooresville, “send it back, and politely tell them we’re going to move on about our business.”
Added Commissioner Miles Atkins: “We’re trying to give this firm business. If they’re taking this long at the beginning (of the process), what’s it going to be like to work with them?”
Setzer took partial responsibility for the delay. “I have been out of the office for 14 work days,” she said. “I have not been able to get on top of this due to scheduling issues.”
Setzer had told town commissioners previously that “the portions of the investigation requiring Town staff participation has been slowed … due to long-ago planned vacations.”
The town needs firms that specialize in "forensic accounting," Setzer said, adding that such firms are rare.
“Essentially, they’re looking for things that aren’t there,” Setzer said, including "transactions that have been hidden, if they’ve been hidden, or not properly documented."
She reminded commissioners that the Cops for Kids account “is not an account that the town has a right to see.”
Commissioners voted 5-1, with Commissioner Frank Rader dissenting, to modify the letter of engagement and present it to Greer & Walker one last time. If the firm did not agree to the terms in the letter, the board authorized Setzer to contact an alternate firm today.
Setzer said she already had another company in mind. “I can call the other company, but I wanted to get this one solved first,” she said.
It’s unclear what the cost to the town will be for the audits. Greer & Walker asked for a $10,000 retainer, but the town will apparently not know the final tally for the audits until the firms complete their work. “We just don’t know,” said Rader. “Once we start, we can’t stop.”
Carney said it’s a price worth paying. Though the town “will not be any financially better off at the end of this study,” he said, the town should not set limits on actions it takes “to restore public trust” … even though it might come “at a hefty, hefty price.”
Commissioner Mitch Abraham asked town staff to provide commissioners within the next few weeks with a list of “what’s been spent to keep the public up-to-date.” He said he would like for staff time to be included in the breakdown of expenses.
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325 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 325 of 325I am the antithesis of what you think I am, sparky, but keep shouting that crone is innocent and being persecuted, it is exactly what I need you to do right now. I will let you know if I need anything else form you. until then, pick up a law book and feel free to prove I am wrong. I bet you cant so you resort to attacking me personally. Watch your step, this game could get a bit rough.
Tic Toc, oh you do amuse me.
We'll see, I suppose. I don't really have to convince anyone that Crone is a good man. The people who know him already know it. It's those in the blogosphere who don't know him that are getting their information from a sour Reverend who does anything but spread the Lord's message. This man is so full of vinegar, even some of those who don't like Crone agree. Then there are the people who have been fired by Crone that are clearly taking issues.
When you look deep enough, you will see motivation behind much of what has been going on. There are even those in the media that have motivation against Crone. There is much under the surface that has not come out yet.
As far as Crone being guilty or not... that will eventually be decided by SBI if they think there is enough there to move forward with. If they do, then a jury will ultimately decide.
Sorry but Bob Bob sounds like one of the fools who signed a letter I saw somewhere else in this blog where they SWORE up and down that the former police cheif was right and everybody else was wrong. I guess Bob Bob still thinks this community owes the disgraced police chief an apology right? Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing.
BTW, rock on Larry Green and rock on Tic Toc! You two dudes have no idea how cool everyone thinks you are.
Yes, gotta love a community where a man of God gets so incredibly political and vindictive and the people actually like that. Fortunately, not everyone thinks that. God helps those that help themselves, but God doesn't help those that bully.
Tic Toc, are you threatening me now or did I take your post at 12:23 the wrong way? Please tell me it is the latter and not the former.
You are a perceptive person no doubt, but was the perception you perceived the actual perception I perceived that you would have perceived I would be saying. My perception of the perceived event may or may not jib with your perception of what you perceived I was saying, and that being the case, is it possible that the perception you perceived me to intend was the perception I perceived you would perceive the perception of what I was saying to be, or maybe not. That is the question of perceived perception that we seem to be under the perception we are dealing with here today, my perceived perception would only be the same as yours if you perceived your perception right before what I perceived and before I perceived the perception myself.
I hope that clears up any perceived misconceptions of what we both perceive the perception to be.
Have a nice day!
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which they have been placed.
Tic Toc-
I don't believe that any of us will "see" anything on the outcome of this mess. After 2 months no one has, or will, produce results of any type of investigation. Mr. Crone will quietly fade in to the background and the entire matter will be laid to rest. That is the way the ToM government operates. There is no one strong enough to force any one of these individuals responsible for the so called "audit" to produce any findings to the citizens. No one will bring charges against Crone and he knows this. It's over and done now. He has been fired and it is over. That is how they resolved the problem.
I hate to say it this way but it is what it is- and it is how it has always been. I dont have any faith in any of our elected officials.
bob bob have you seen the cops for kids records or are you taking crones word for everything?
The only recent "nutcase" on this blog is the poster who still thinks John Crone is innocent. It's pretty pitiful. You know, I've heard of people like this, but it's hard to believe they exist until you see it for yourself. These are the same people who would actually watch somebody they like commit a crime then dig in their heels and deny it 'til kingdom come.
:-) There are plenty of people that believe in Crone. If you take an inventory of his most ardent detractors, you will find that most of them feel they have been personally wronged by him. Just look at all those out here who are saying that "he'll get his" and "what goes around comes around". Motivation is pretty compelling. What is not compelling is the fact that you all post anonymously. If you come out of the woodwork, we'd see that most of you are tied to him somehow and that this is vindictiveness at its best.
Even Jaime is tied very closely to a commissioner that does not like Crone and to a fired Dare officer. Can't you people smell a setup? I think it very plausible that a fired officer goes to an investigative reporter and tells her to ask for certain information. It was all to be turned over to the Town budget on July 1, but the request for the information came on June 26th while the Chief was on vacation. Then the reporters camped out at the Police Station on June 30th before July 1 hit. Why exactly did that happen?
Has anyone asked Jaime why she decided to ask for information after it's been around for 10 years? Has anyone asked Jaime where her source is?
I would like to see them try to still cover this up, the reason you have not seen the audit, is because it is so bad that it will fry crone,(I know what he had and did not have and do and not do) just like I said, he tried to retire, they would not let him, had it just been the evidence room, he would have been allowed to retire but they had no choice, they had to distance themselves right away and in a grand way because they know he is guilty, and he is not going to be the only one. I mean hell, look how Rader backtracked on whether he stood by what he said about crones store being the only one that made sense. He knows as well, but he is covering still, so you should look for the reason, either in CFK or out, but the reason is there.
The evidence room allowed them to fire him right then, the criminal investigation gave them the motivation they had not had before to do it.
They will never release those audit results because it will screw up the criminal case. They are private bank statements that were turned over by mistake by Crone. The town cant show them, and the town cant get a complete picture of the finances of Cops 4 Kids so this audit is bullcrap and meaningless. But Jaime could and did show what she got out of him and that was all I needed to see, what he
Look, if the SBI follows the letter of the law, they have no choice but to charge him and I mean with everything the law says they must, so, they are all history according to the law. There can be no cover up anymore, it is ONLY a matter of when they charge him, not if they charge him. Thats the Law, I did not write it, but I sure as hell can read it and back it up, so if I can, you know the Atty General Cooper can too.
They are coming folks, for all of them, first those fundraising rooms I talked about, then Crone and his merry band of robbing hoods, and then the Sheriff and his, it is the Law, they MUST follow the law, it is too late for them all.
But I have an ace in the hole anyway, a couple actually.
BTW, they cant arrest the people in those fraudulent fundraising rooms in Mooresville without arresting ALL THE OTHER cops that did the exact same thing, because they are doing the exact same thing.
Why do you think I threw those two offices into the mix. It violates the equal protection clause of the 14th if they dont arrest them, which is the whole point. And it continues a violation that is ongoing. Now should they choose not to arrest all these people, then I still win and they know that already. They are in a very bad place right now in this case and will remain so as long as all these people walk the streets without charges. It is the Constitution for crying out loud, you dont get to pick and choose who you arrest and dont arrest based on friendship and whether one wears a badge, and anyone in law enforcement that thinks that is ok, can leave their guns and badges at the state police barracks because you cant leave them with your current bosses, their are busy tryingto figure out a way out of this, but I promise you there is not. Never has been from the day I jaime got here.
Tic Toc, you are delusional. You've confirmed that for all of us. Your delusions come shining through.
that word has already been explained, try another,
here look this up and see what it says about you, then write me a report, 25 pages, oh wait, it will come back blank i'm sure.
hebetudinous
Your delusions keep shining through thinking you have power over others. My educated guess is that anonymity of the internet levels the field for you and this is where you feel some superiority. Heck, you actually have these poor people wanting you to be their mayor. if only they met you in person. How disappointed they all would be.
missed that lol
It's the time of year when everyone comes out of the woodwork to try to separate me from my money. Thanks to the Do Not Call List, we no longer have to put up with telemarketing from businesses. But charities are another story. Once you donate to one, you are fair game for all forms of questionable charities to haunt you at every opportunity.
And nothing pisses me off more that the obviously phony, or barely legitimate, police and fire fundraising calls that I get constantly the last couple years. While it always annoyed me a bit to be hit on by my local police and fire department (what do I pay exorbitant property taxes for), I nevertheless would always donate $25 dollars to my local police and fire department.
But when I started getting calls for The New England Firefigher's Association, The American Police Officer's Association etc., and was confronted with high pressure assholes on the phone, I made a blanket policy that I would no longer give a dime to any police of fire group that call me on the phone. Sure, I'm probably tarring the legitimate calls with the scam calls, but I don't have any way to figure out who is legitimate and who is not, so that's just the way it goes. And even the most worthy charity shouldn't be haunting people for donations on the phone.
Yesterday I got a call from the Police Association. It was basically a telemarketing call as they were trying to raise funds. This really bothers me for a couple of reasons.
I always find it very intimidating when the police associations or the fire department equivalent call looking for money. As a society we definitely owe these people something. They are the reason why we have law and order (not the show) and good emergency response. However, they are also in a position that makes them very intimidating. What happens if I don’t give money to one of these groups? Does my name get put on a little list so next time I am speeding I get a ticket instead of a warning? Will the fire department be just a little bit slower getting to my house if there is a call? Sure, all of these ideas sound pretty far fetched. What if the person calling is not a hired sales droid but is an off duty police officer who lives down the street? Or a off duty fireman who recognizes the address on the emergency radio as the address of the person who was rude to him on the phone last night. Perhaps these feelings are more acute for me because I grew up in a small community where if the local departments did the calling these coincidences could easily come true. These feelings may not be based on any kind of logic but they do exist, at least for me. Personally, I have a lot harder time saying no to the police and fire department telemarketing fund raisers than I do any other group. In fact, yesterday might have been the first time I actually did say no to them and that’s because of my second point.
One of the reasons they were asking for donations is to lobby for law changes. The pitch went immediately to sex offenders. “Do you watch the news?”, “Yes”, “Then you have heard about the recent problems in here.” The nice tele-sales guy then preceded to explain that the laws are too lax and that criminals who are released just re-offend so the law should be changed to keep them in jail.
Obviously, they think the prison system is too easy on criminals. Police officers are given a special role by our society. The role of upholding the law. With this role comes respect and power. By using this position to raise funds and lobby for changes to the legal system they exert unfair influence on our society. It is not the role of the police to make laws, we have the elected officials and the judiciary to do that.
I’m sure the Police Association believes what they are doing is correct and it’s probably not illegal. Whether they realize it or not they abusing the power that their role in society gives them
Somebody wrote earlier "There are plenty of people that believe in Crone." And then the same person went on to call other posters "delusional". That's rich! I think this person's landed in Oz, where up is down and down is up...delusional is rational, rational is delusional. Gives me a headache thinking about irrational people like this.
A BIG THANK YOU TO Iternational Union of Police Associations. (IUPA) from
Tic Toc
I want you folks to know what is happening so far, the post I made on Aug. 15th 2008 in regards to IUPA and the FOP is showing some fruit,
After being on this board since July 8th and bashing the crap out of Crone and Company for a month and a half, my demand to these to help me it would appear is happening, and happening in a big way.
Below is my post.
Anonymous said...
Now lets bring in the FOP, that is the Ferternal Order of Police for those of you that dont know who they are, look them up. 300,000 members strong, let me just say this, you better start helping me with this becasue dont forget I know every in and out of how you "raise" your money. Hell you all are not even a 501 C 3, dont make do this, you will start to contact your elected officials on behalf of the people of Mooresville and you will clean this house out or I will tare your house donw quick fast and in a hurry.
I know some of you are reading this, go to your lodge and talk to the men at the top of those lodges and ask them how they "raise" the money you use.
Dont forget I know what pitches you use as well, and that puts you all in the same boat as Crone and Company. Help solve this and I will leave you alone and let you keep doing what you are doing, ootherwise I will see to it that all of your professional fundraisers go to prison, do you know how many that is, it is thousands. You will help me or you will never see another dime,
Crone and COmpnay did not take me seriously either, but I suggest you do, no I take that make, I dont suggest anything, you will do what I ask, or I start plucking off your professional fundraisers untill you get the messege that I am not playing games with this industry. It will come crashing down in a big heap of crap.
How is the game coming so far boys, did you go yet?
Maybe we should start with IUPA instead, for those of you that dont know them, that stands for Internation Union of Police Association, you two groups have been at it for years I guess you cant decide who steals more money, but I can tell you and I will if you all dont help me either. THis game is over, I am going to burn it down.
How do you all like me now. Check it out, all you members of both groups and you will find out I am dead serious and you will also find out that I am more then capable of doing it.
YOU WILL HELP ME, 1 charge for 1 man, are you all this dumb to let me do this, hell let me, that implies you have a choice.
SHould the "games" I play mr Crone continue or will you submit to that 1 class H felony, you see the lengths I am willing to go to,
TO the FBI, have you added the numbers up going to prison yet, I am working on it, be glad both those groups use paid fundraisers and not actual Police Officers, but it is still fraud now matter who you use.
Your turn guys!
August 15, 2008 4:52 PM
THEN THERE IS THIS POST
Anonymous said...
SO far I am only posting public information, just wait till I get to the real stuff, the private stuff on how all this works.
FOP, IUPA, are you all on the phone yet???
August 15, 2008 6:18 PM
AND THEN THIS ONE
Anonymous said...
Who wants the text of the BUllet Proof Vest Pitch, How about the Dare Drug Pitch, How about the Dead Cop Pitch, How about the Vans for Vets Pitch, How about the FIre Department Stop Drop and Roll Pitch.
All fraud, all illegal, all include the words, your contibution is 100% tax deductable. Guess what, none of them are.
How about the advertising sponser pitch, the year book pitch, the drug book pitch.
I can give them verbatim and they are unsed nationwide right now, in thousands of rooms across the country.
How about the mooch pitch, maybe you would like to hear widows and orphens pitch???
Anyone???? ANyone???
Are you listening FOP and IUPA, dont help me and you are done.
Believe me Iam not proud that I know them, let alone know them by heart.
Oh heres one, the bicycle rodeo pitch, or maybe the policemans ball pitch, or how about the tickets for chrismas programs.
SOmetimes people do things they are not proud of and then they do what I am doing to make up for it, by they way, under the law all that BS is legit, it is how they say it that is not. I never cross that line.
Oh and one last one, my favorite, the police sticker pitch. Every car you see on the road with a police sticker is a victim of fraud.
Bet you all did not know that did you?
Anyway, want to hear more, or shuld I just stop now? I can say whetever I want to now, I am out.
August 15, 2008 6:29 PM
AND HOW ABOUT THIS ONE
Anonymous said...
Mr. Cooper, I know you are a good man, but Frank is your boy and flat out says he does not care if you are innocent.
Mr. Cooper you better live up to this... I am on you, and not to worry, if Crone did not scare me, and your boy does not scare me, do you really think you do?
I am coming to give you the disney e ticket ride in the legal system, you and I are going to the Supreme court, dont sen a boy (frank) to do a mans job.
Live up to this or go down with the rest of these fools.
FOP, and IUPA, not hearing anything from you yet, I am back for another day of ripping you to shreads.
BUt today I start taking you apart.
Working Hard to Protect North Carolina’s Greatest Asset
. . .its people
Attorney General Roy Cooper is working every day to make North Carolina a safer place to live, work and raise a family. As the state's top law enforcement officer he is bringing violent criminals to justice with DNA evidence and better technology. As a national leader in fighting for consumers he busts scams that prey on unsuspecting people. Whether it's taking criminals and con artists to court or taking the battle for tougher laws to Raleigh and Washington, he is making life better, and safer, for the people of North Carolina.
August 16, 2008 10:16 AM
NOW WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE
Anonymous said...
As a national leader in fighting for consumers he busts scams that prey on unsuspecting people.
You are sure not showing this now are you Mr. Cooper. You have crooked cops all over your state and you are turning a blind eye.
Shall we play a game Mr. Cooper?
Or do you just want to come marytr me?
You will protect the constitution or you will be tossed into the heap with Crone, Rader, Smith, Thunberg, and Frank.
DOnt you relize I am doing your job for you, you WILL help me.
FOP and IUPA, I am going after your numbers today, want some of that published?? Percentages you get, the up front fee's and such, bet that is going to make you all look real good for fundraising dont you?
Are you all on the phone yet, yesterday I said call Frank, well forget frank, go to Cooper, I doubt very seriously he will not listen to such a large group of sworn law enforcement officers.
I swear to god, you are on the wrong side of this right now, get back on the right side or go down in flames.
You will help me prove my INNOCENSE and Crones GUILT or you will never see another dime ever again. YOu know I can do it too, just based on whatI have shown you I know, are you wondering yet, what else I know?? You should be and you should be on the phone.
Mr. Cooper if I have to go past you, I will, you better protect your boss like I am protecting the constitution.
Tic Toc
OR MAYBE THIS ONE
Anonymous said...
Good Luck everyone, I cant say I did not try,m but I will try again,I guess morresville is not the place.
NCCOPS -North Carolina Conference of Police and Sheriffs - David Spagnola, they dont want to hear about yuo, but I am going to say this, I still want you to do the right things and call Cooper and before you degard the idea, here is just a snippet of what I have for you.
POLICE UNIONS (IUPA)
NC Policeman Charged with Embezzlement
A police officer featured in local news media for his role in finding a kidnapped infant has been charged with embezzling close to $10,000 from his union from Jan. 2001 to May of this year.
Jason E. Padgett has been technical director of the N. Carolina Coalition of Police (NCCops) for three years. NCCops was established by the Intl. Union of Police Assns. (IUPA), AFL-CIO in 1998, as a representative for police officers desiring such representation, although collective bargaining between governments and unions is illegal in NC.
In his position, Padgett is responsible for the group's web site, newsletter and bank accounts. David Spagnola, NCCops Exec. Dir., said that an initial review of the group's banking statements prompted suspicions, which were relayed to the Bd. of Directors, composed of several local police organization presidents. After a subsequent audit, the information was handed over the law enforcement, and the charges were filed earlier this month. [Greensboro News & Record 10/12/02]
Mr. Spagnola? What are you thinking putting this in writing?? I am going to give you a break for now on that, but are you picking up the phone to call Cooper?
I swear you do not want me to continue, your group does some very good work and I would like to think you all are above board, however, it is not looking that way.
Mr. Spagnola, call Cooper or your group will have a very tough time raising funds again, ever. You are using phone pros right now, don’t forget I already know what they are saying and they, I promise you, are committing fraud under NC GS 14-100.
I want and need crone arrested on 1 count of a violation of NC GS 14-100, I need your help, or I can put you your fundraisers in prison, it is your choice right now, but I promise you it will not be if crone is still walking the street on Friday afternoon.
1 man, 1 charge, that is all I want and you get to keep coning the public. How is that for a deal.
Think I am kidding? Try me? Your group will be easier then the FOP, better call national on my behalf as well, tell them I said there ad book sucks, you know the one, its called the LAW OFFICER. Make your check out to the law officer. Now tell me what the use of that name implies?? Now maybe I will describe the boiler rooms your fundraisers use, including the payments made to many in drugs as their pay checks.
Sure you want to keep playing the game with me Mr. Spagnola? Pick up the phone, pick it up today, or I start lining up ALL your fundraisers in prison cells along side the FOP’s and COPS 4 Kids, which you guessed it, it’s a bunch of cops. Are you seeing a pattern here yet?
BTW, you know this email of yours is a lie and also proof you employee phone pros, and to me there is no way you don’t know what they say, because if they tell the truth, you get nothing. You are trying to keep one foot in the water with enough distance for the group to claim you did not know what was going on. Which judging by your organization being ripped off by this guy before
Mr. Spagnola? What are you thinking putting this in writing?? I am going to give you a break for now on that, but are you picking up the phone to call Cooper?
I swear you do not want me to continue, your group does some very good work and I would like to think you all are above board, however, it is not looking that way.
Mr. Spagnola, call Cooper or your group will have a very tough time raising funds again, ever. You are using phone pros right now, don’t forget I already know what they are saying and they, I promise you, are committing fraud under NC GS 14-100.
I want and need crone arrested on 1 count of a violation of NC GS 14-100, I need your help, or I can put you in prison, it is your choice right now, but I promise you it will not be if crone is still walking the street on Friday afternoon.
1 man, 1 charge, that is all I want and you get to keep coning the public. How is that for a deal.
Think I am kidding? Try me? Your group will be easier then the FOP, better call national on my behalf as well, tell them I said there ad book sucks, you know the one, its called the LAW OFFICER. Make your check out to the law officer. Now tell me what the use of that name implies?? Now maybe I will describe the boiler rooms your fundraisers use, including the payments made to many in drugs as their pay checks.
Sure you want to keep playing the game with me Mr. Spagnola? Pick up the phone, pick it up today, or I start lining up ALL your fundraisers in prison cells along side the FOP’s and COPS 4 Kids, which you guessed it, it’s a bunch of cops. Are you seeing a pattern here yet?
BTW, you know thies email of yours is a lie and also proof you employee phone pros, and to me there is no way you don’t know what they say, because if they tell the truth, you get nothing. You are trying to keep one foot in the water with enough distance for the group to claim you did not know what was going on. Which judging by your organization being ripped of
Mr. Spagnola’s email is below
Email the president of the organization to complain about the number of calls. "David Spagnola(onguard3@mindspring.com]"
I got the following reply ....
WE relayed the email to our fund raising company and they have purged
your number from the data base.
A computer dials the number and the computer tells us that the calls
were not answered.
It takes few seconds for the computer to detect your answer before a
person picks up and you may have hung up by then.
Regardless, it's not a perfect system and if the computer doesn't feel
the call was answered, it goes into a recall mode and calls you again
and again until it's answered.
You number has been purged. Thanks for letting us know about the
problem.
Good Luck man cause just cause I amy not come after you does not mean that someone else is not. You gonna need it.
Dont worry if the board asks I will post more but it appears I am taking to no one.
August 18, 2008 5:24 AM
These are some of the times I attacked IUPA< and I told them what I was going to do, I demanded their help, and by the press release they put out, convientley 2 days before I layed into them, they put this out!!!!
So who wants to say these men are not still guilty!
IUPA knows they are guilty and they are in the fight now with us, I told you all there was no going back for me.
Here is what IUPA said on 8/13/2008
I would say they said UNCLE, wouldn't you???
I am not 100% it was me, but I am 99% sure.
Check my next post out and true to my word, IUPA you help out with this and I keep my mouth shut, but you included just about all my ammo in this press release, so keep up the good work.
September 10, 2008 5:47 PM
Anonymous said...
Here you go, and the first one falls.
Cooper, I know these folks called you, hell they got you on speed dial right now.
WHOS NEXT???
IUPA Police Union Pledges to Clean Up Fundraising Efforts
2008-08-13 08:00:00
International Union of Police Associations (IUPA) has passed a resolution on ethical fundraising, pledging to comply with telemarketing standards that were previously ignored by the union. The resolution, presented by IUPA members and passed at the union's convention last week in Orlando, obliges IUPA to put an end to percentage-based compensation and put philanthropic mission above personal gain. Up until now, only 1.2% of the money raised through telemarketing by IUPA has gone to actual charitable law enforcement causes or scholarships.
2 CENTS, a citizens' group aimed at highlighting poor telemarketing practices that deceive the public, supports the resolution, which pledges to end IUPA's relationship with its for-profit telemarketing contractor, LAS, LLC. Last year IUPA raised $4.8 million in public donations, but spent $4.3 million of those donations in the fundraising process, including $1.9 million in fees to LAS, LLC.
IUPA consequently received a total of about $500,000 through telemarketing, but made only $53,900 in donations to law enforcement causes and scholarships, meaning only 1.2% of the total donations went to actual charitable causes. The rest went to officer salaries and meetings in fancy hotels. IUPA is running a deficit and depends on public donations to keep paying the over $600,000 a year in salaries to union leaders.
The resolution will also put an end to percentage-based compensation for telemarketers. Previously telemarketers received a percentage of whatever they raised; they will now receive an hourly wage, returning integrity to the process.
"This resolution is the first step to cleaning up what was a deeply questionable fundraising process," said Jo-Ann Mort, spokesperson for 2 Cents. "We expect our law enforcement officers to value ethics and maintain integrity in all they do. By ending their relationship with LAS, LLC and adhering to the standards set forth by the Association of Professional Fundraisers, IUPA is making a move in the right direction."
Anyone read Tic Toc's post above? Does that give you a headache? Do you see the pattern of delusions of grandeur and power this man has? Time to get back on the meds Tic Toc. Come out of your hovel today, or too busy typing and afraid of the real world? Medication will help with that, but you have to stay on your meds in order for them to work.
2:41 were do you get the information you post? Are you just weird? Read back and look at the dates of the articles by Jaime and tell me just why Mr Crone is innocent. I just went back and looked at the time line of events. Why do you say Jaime and the DARE officer that was fired planned all this? The article about the officers that have left or been fired came out a month AFTER the Dare officer was let go and the CFK info even later. My question to you is IF they are all such good friends WHY did it take so long for the write ups.
PLEASE think before you speak! AND ask the other officers how Crone treated them. He was a BULLY, pure and simple. You and BOB BOB need to get a life
Dear 7:02, I do know some of the officers who have worked for him in the past. I've spoken with officers who no longer work for him. I know of a few officers and the real storylines behind how they were let go and they come back trying to make it look different than it really was. Say what you want, but it does not change what I know to be the truth. And I do mean TRUTH
Does the public have a right to e-mail addresses compiled by a politician and utilized the conduct of his role as an elected official? From what I read in the law and then posted -- yes. How one can equate e-mail addresses with social security numbers is beyond me. And FYI, such personal identifiers are explicitly excluded from the FOIA. And the assertion that I would post that information is false. I do post e-mail conversations because I think it's important for folks to see and to have all the information -- not just edited versions.
As for me and my apparent vitriolic focus, all I can say is that what you see is what you get. I do not play hidden politics, possess a hidden agenda, or condone such activities. I've not hidden my identity at any time, because I believe it's important to own up to what you believe.
As for the loose change information -- I think the law is pretty clear on that topic and that we've discussed that on several threads over a period of months now.
You believe that Mr. Crone has not violated law and that his actions are in compliance with personnel policies and legal statutes. I don't.
My positions are based on the public documents available to all citizens, and is based on a review of those documents. It sounds to me as if your position is based on a personal relationship with Mr. Crone and not on factual information. If you have documentation showing that the allegations are unfounded and that Mr. Crone should not have been terminated, I would like to see it and encourage you to share it.
Mr Green,
I did a Google of Broad Run HS and found one in Ashburn, VA, just outside Washington DC. Is that the one you attended? Must have been exciting growing up so close to Washington DC.
That sounds like you're stalking him ... what does that have to do with anything?
Go Spartans!
Rev Green,
I am still struck by your arrogance. You all are feeling pretty powerful after bullying Town Hall. Whether they deserve it or not, is not the question. I think they probably do. The point is that eventually enough will be enough. They are not going to cooperate with you out of the good ness of their hearts.
When you ask for something that they have the remotest possibility of protecting, they will. For you to say that you would not post those email addresses on this or any other website is laughable.
Your ego is larger than the town limits of Mooresville. It's plain to see.
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Its wrong, but you're entitled to it.
Larry, you are entitled to do what you want with information that you receive, to an extent. You have proven what you will do with ANY information that is given to you. That will result in many doors closing for you.
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. Where are you trying to take this? Running for political office? This is where it all starts... radical activism.
Just remember that when you put yourself out there, you make yourself a public figure too. People will want to know more about you, including your past and your motivation. Comes with the territory.
12:40 -- I have shared information with Green that I know he has not put out in the general public. I also know that others have the same experience.
My guess is that Green puts the Rader stuff out there because of Rader's frequent misrepresentation in his Rader-At-Large political distribution.
As for being a "radical" activist -- I don't see him as a radical, but as someone who has shown that he is not afraid to say what he believes and to stand behind it.
Dear 1:08,
That's what people say about Farrakhan, and Obama's Rev Jeremiah Wright. It's all about the Government who is holding us down. Always a conspiracy. Time to march again isn't it? Same story, different characters and varying degrees of course. I don't think Green is nearly as bad as Wright or Farrakhan, but when "men of God" get involved in activism, it is seldom for the purpose of spreading God' word. The more they taste of the limelight, the more they crave it.
Green posts with his name because he gets accolades from a few anonymous visitors here who rally behind him. he is becoming drunk with the attention and craves more. It's ego, pure and simple.
I just read here that the "radical activists" are "bullying Town Hall". All I can say is it's about damn time somebody started bullying Town Hall back, and if it's the radical activists that's doing it then good for them! Where can I join up? I've had it with some of the stuckup asses sitting up in Town Hall playing with our money like it's Monopoly money, giving themselves raises, raising my taxes, poo pooing away the police corruption with the police chief, putting up with each other's dead weight. I'm ready for the tables to turn! We need to take back this town from the greedy hands of a handful who's been doling out to their buddies for years. The radical activists are looking better and better every day.
It has always been my understanding that if a record is deemed public, it must be provided to any citizen who requests it. To coin such a request as "radical" and "egotistical" and "bullying" tells us much about the person who uses those terms. Mr. Green, it appears that you have hit a very raw nerve with your request of Mr. Rader. There is clearly someone on this thread who feels extremely threatened and angered by your request. It will be very interesting to watch this situation unfold.
September 11, 2008 3:31 PM
I just read your post. Do you have any idea how you sound? Go back and reread your own words.
Larry, the guy who's been attacking you is just trying to bully you away from asking for what's yours by law. He's used to this tactic working. It's like when the kids finally turn on the schoolyard bully and he runs to the principal crying with snot running down his face. The rest of us out here see him for exactly what he is. Some sore loser who's totally pissed off because his apple cart's been tilted and now he's gotta go freeload somewhere else, whether it be for work, power or political bones he's used to getting.
3:31 wrote: "drunk with the attention and craves more. It's ego, pure and simple." I'd recognize Frank Rader anywhere!
No, no, here's my favorite part of this lone Rader Lover's (the one at 3:31 pm) vitriole: "few anonymous visitors here"
Gatton's got over 140,000 hits on this little old local political blog in a few months, and there's only a "few anonymous visitors". Maybe this is RADER? I didn't think we could have TWO ostriches with necks that long running around.
Face it, honey, your little Mooresville's growning up and there's no stopping it. The spotlight's on people like you and your friends and nothing you SAY is going to change that. I have an idea. Just come on over to the light side darling. The air's much cleaner over here.
Reverend Green, the person who has been attacking you is green (no pun intended) with envy. It is beginning to dawn on them that they are Mooresville's yesterday and people like you are Mooresville's future. It can't be easy for folks like this so we can all have compassion but please do not let them deter you.
I'm assuming the ya'll are talking about the same one who wrote earlier about Green, saying to Green "I am still struck by your arrogance." Hey, have you looked at some of your town officials lately? Talk about arrogance? Just go and spend a few minutes looking at your mayor and the assistant townmanager, not to mention blueblood Frank Rader. Have you gone up to them and said "I am still struck by your arrogance." Nah, didn't think so. Give me a break. there're still people posting who think they're dealing with a bunch of firstgraders. Times have changed my man. You change with 'em or you get left behind.
And to Green. Hope you get your list. I got a feeling there's a story in that one just judging from the ruckas you raised.
Going after Larry Green is just Bob Bob's (Crone's pastor, or whoever he is) ploy to take all our attention off of the fact that there has been NO AUDIT DONE OF COPS FOR KIDS YET. 2 1/2 months into this thing and NO AUDIT. Let that sink in for a moment, because if "They" (fill in the blanks) allow an audit to take place, then Crone's going down. And if Crone goes down, guess who he may take down with him? You guessed it...the very people we are relying on to get the audits going. Ever heard of Catch 22? Of course what they never counted on was The Gatton Report Factor.
3:31 You make me laugh.
Seems to me that you're being quite a "radical activist" -- trying to convince us to take on your view of CFK, Crone, the local political scene, and your view of religious activism.
Dear 4:38, you just hit the nail on the head. You want Rader to give up his list and you are convinced that the list contains something pretty big. newsflash for ya.... it's just a list of email addresses. But that's not good enough for you is it? It must be something bigger, something very controversial. You are too funny. Do you all sit around all day and watch x-files?
I am not Rader and I don't know him. I watched his video on this site and I don't see the arrogance that you all are talking about. I know a thing or ttwo about challenging small government. The way you all are doing it is self-defeating. I don't live in Mooresville and have nothing to lose. I do know some of the people involved in this witch hunt of yours and in some cases you are off base.
Funny thing about lynch mobs, their easy to pick out.
Dear 4:57.... wasn't the audit completed and turned in yesterday?
Dear Larry, you know I am correct. An anonymous poster throwing up a few messages is not quite a radical activist. I assume that you do believe in God and not just using it as a political stepping stone, so you may want to reflect on your methods. God has a plan for us all.
Why is it that as a man of God you do not condemn this Tic Toc guy who has threatened to take the law in his own hands and has made numerous threats on this site? I suppose you think God is behind him too?
You are very transparent Green. Whatever suits you is good enough, isn't it?
"But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same object,
evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty,
to throw off such government, and
to provide new guards for their future security."
Absolute despotism? Me thinks you watch too many movies. Yes, I watched National Treasure too.
Be careful what y'all wish for, you just might get it.
Yes, you are correct about one thing -- I am transparent. However, I take that as a compliment and wish the town leadership was the same. Transparency is a good thing.
I don't disagree with what you say Larry, but you come off as arrogant, a bit entitled and aggressive. Not exactly something Jesus would preach. But perhaps we all have different views of Jesus?
You are probably spending too much time being indignant that you don't see it. Time for some reflection and self-examination.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
and Hell hath no fury as a woman (or preacher) scorned
This pathetic poster who is slamming Larry Green should sign his name and address Larry Green in person. Larry Green has exercised his rights as a citizen and being a pastor doesn't mean he gives up those rights. And by the way, pathetic poster, Larry Green has been right in every he has said in public and on this blog. I challenge you to show one thing he has said since the beginning of this thing that is not accurate. And, by the way, it was the town who fired the police chief. We of this movement appreciate you giving us credit for it, but perhaps, just perhaps, there was more than a shred of evidence that said they had no choice but to fire him. So, come with something other than a slam on a guy who you should be thanking and maybe your crap will be worth reading.
"Pathetic poster"--great moniker. Yeah, let's call the guy Pathetic Poster. Hey there, Pathetic Poster, who claims he/she doesn't even live in Mooresville. Uh, so why do you care about Tic Toc? He's not an elected official or perhaps an assistant town manager who turned a blind eye to Cops for Kids all those years. Hell, you are harder on a guy who just wants some public records (maybe simply his right as an American, on all of the days, 9/11, surely this is still America!!). Well, carry on Pathetic Poster, you will certainly give us something to talk about on the blog. We look forward to your misguided and condescending posts. Bring it on.
OK, here's some more comments for you to chew on.
Tic Toc has stated that he does not live in Mooresville. If I'm wrong, fine, but I read it somewhere on here.
Public records should be available to anyone. I don't disagree with that fact. What I do disagree with is the arrogance in Green's statements. The way he shows absolutely no respect to his fellow humans and christians. Jesus never taught that. He is entitled to public records. Private email addresses of citizens that are emailed from an elected official are not in that category. His arrogance and indignation in demanding that information is something I take issue with.
Laugh it up all you want, but i am not alone in my thinking.
September 9, 2008 10:58 PM
email addresses do not inherently contain personal information, they are simply an address where email messages can be delivered via SMTP or earlier protocols. FOIA, if disclosure of the information is in the public interest, likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations or activities of the government then it's not likley to be excluded as it does not meet any of those standards, and he used it to convey policy statements and interpretation of etc
and Hell hath no fury as a man whose been thrown off the gravy train
Hate it for ya. Better luck next time, Pathetic Poster. there's a sucker born everyday. Go latch on to one of em. We're done with you and your kind freeloading off of us and then calling us names when we dare to complain about it.
Then I'm sure you will get those email addresses then. As a matter of fact, you probably already have them, right? No?
While we're at it, why don't we go ahead and ask for the email addresses of anyone that the Governor has sent messages to. Let me know how that request goes too.
:-) Good luck.
The biggest difference I see between "pathetic poster" and the good reverend is that one of them is focused on public officials and the other one is focused on private citizens.
Oh, the arrogance and the audacity of the RADICAL activists in this town. How DARE they assume they can actually question the actions of the people who hold the reins on almost 90% of what happens to them in their daily lives - water, roads, police protection, fire protection, etc. etc. What BULLIES they have become to - WHAT! - request public records?! Whoever heard of such a thing in this special little town? Just WHO do they think they are?! Do they not know their lowly stations? They are but PEONS compared to the great "LEADERS", instruments whereby taxes can be earned and collected and spent at the FULL DISCRETION of those revered leaders. What WILL they do next? Request public records from the GOVERNOR'S office? Such RADICAL ACTIVISM will no longer be tolerated. Off with their heads! The PATHETIC POSTER has decreed it so.
Can we just pleeeeease get some friggin audit results already? Geez louise. It's starting to look like the old joke about "how many town employees does it take to screw in a lightbulb."
Ha ha ha ..... look who's calling who the pathetic poster. You have no idea who I am. I won't be providing any clues either. In any case, I have no gravy train. I work very hard for my money on my own, as some of you may also do. I couldn't care less if you ask every one of those politicians in Mooresville to resign. Better yet, just vote them out of office. I don't care. I really don't. I hope you find good qualified people to step up and run for offices.
My issues are with the lynch mob mentality and the arrogance of certain people. Tic Toc is a psychopath with serious issues with authorities. Green is arrogant, entitled and egomaniacal.
Clarence Darrow:
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free.
Gloria Steinem:
Law and justice are not always the same. When they aren't, destroying the law may be the first step toward changing it.
Dolores Ibarruri:
It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Holocaust Museum, Washington, DC:
Thou shalt not be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.
I've been reading the babblings of a certain poster about "lynch mobs". What the hell is he talking about? He obviously has never seen an actual "lynch mob" to equate what's going on in your town with it. Either this guy has lived a very limited and sheltered life, or he is delusional, or he has been in an authority position at some point in his life and become the target and recipient of some serious public scrutiny, and is now sore at anybody who dares to question authority.
Regardless, as somebody looking from the outside in, I can tell you this. There is nothing "lynch mob-like" about those of you who are wondering why there are no audit results yet of the former police chief's pet charity. The words which better fit this situation are "cover up".
It is very possible this person is somehow involved in the coverup and therefore very desperate for you all to just go away and let it be. That's just my bird's eye view on this.
10:15 thanks for quotes. You might appreciate this one:
“It is the reformer who is anxious for the reform, and not society, from which he should expect nothing better than opposition, abhorrence and mortal persecution.”
The Pathetic Poster only proves this powerful point.
“Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is a little like expecting a bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian”
Dennis Wholey
9:56 P.M. You did it again! You are brilliant! You described perfectly several people currently holding public positions in Mooresville. You've got a real knack for this.
"arrogant, entitled and egomaniacal."
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
[info][add][mail]
Abraham Lincoln
Pathetic Poster is also a Pathetic Liar. First he tells us that Green's ego is bigger than Mooresville's town limits, then he tells us he don't live in Mooresville. Then he admits he "knows some of the people involved in this witch hunt". Yep, I'll bet he does. It wouldn't take a genius to figure that little "clue" out! Ya'll have got his little buddies nervous and now he's going to get back atcha by calling you bullies and arrogant and whatever. Sticks and stone...Don't stop what you're doing. It's working.
Here's one for you by one of those scary "arrogant, bullying, evil, radical activist" preachers:
“Many people fear nothing more terribly than to take a position which stands out sharply and clearly from the prevailing opinion.” MLK
Anybody notice just when 'bob bob' disappeared 'pathetic poster' appeared? bob bob's too embarrassed to even use his fake name. Now that is pathetic.
Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it.
Author: Malcolm X
What's the big deal about Rader's email list anyway? Why doesn't he just turn it over. For God's sake, my email address is about as private as my darn name!
I think the biggest question I have is how in the world did one commissioner get ahold of so many email addresses in the first place? Did somebody in Town Hall just give him our email addresses? Did the other elected officials get that list or was Rader the only lucky one?
I mean seriously. I don't know about you, but I don't have thousands of email addresses in my addressbook.
"Injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured." Martin Luther King Jr.
"An unjust punishment is never forgotten." Penelope Fitzgerald
"True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else." Clarence Darrow
"Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both." Eleanor Roosevelt
"A man must be willing to die for justice. Death is an inescapable reality and men die daily, but good deeds live forever." Jesse Jackson
John Adams, quotes about Justice:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
Regarding Rader's email address list: Again, I think it is above public scrutiny. How he got those email addresses is not. Crucify him on how he got the email addresses and whether he followed can-spam laws. Butt as for the contents of those email addresses, I don't think they should be turned over.
You can label me however you want and with whatever adjectives you like. If I were here for public opinion, I would have shut up and gone away a long time ago. Reality is, though, that your opinions and feelings are irrelevant to this discussion.
Not one shred of evidence has been offered by you, or anyone else, which counters the public documents already avaialable and which I have personally reviewed. Instead, we get the same old game:
Tic-Toc is crazy
Green is an abomination
We all have hidden agendas
Jamie's biased
Officers are all alpha males
Green is a radical activist
I would welcome you to produce one shred of documentable evidence which contradicts anything I've said or has been published on this blog. Just 1 would go a long way!
My guess is that you can't do that, because you don't have anything other than your personal feelings that Mr. Crone is a nice guy and did not intentionally do anything wrong.
Whether you like me or not isn't the important issue and has no bearing on the topic at hand. You do make me laugh, though.
And no, I don't have the e-mail addresses from Mr. Rader. He has refused to comply with the FOIA but has not given the legal basis for that denial. He is required to provide the legal basis.
I believe the poster is wrong. From my reading of the public records law the email addresses used by Mr. Rader to sent out city information as described on these boards world be public records and subject to disclosure.
Hi Larry, this is not a court of law. This is not pre-trial discovery. Nice try. :-)
That's the problem with you. You think you are all powerful and people need to bend to your will. Another trait of egomaniacs. There is no question that you have your loyal followers of "misfit toys". Just look how angry they get with me for posting the truth.
How can you not admonish Tic Toc for his very threatening posts? Guess he supports your side so you think it's ok? That says much about your character. No stop changing the subject and let us know how you really feel about Tic Toc's threats.
So he's right -- you have nothing to support your opinions? You've been saying all along that Crone is a nice guy and just screwed up, so show us why you think that. Now that would be a mature response and a good contribution to the discussion. Green isn't asking you to prove anything, he just asked you to back up your statements with facts.
It appears that you may have an exteme case of denial regarding this situation. It's always easier to blame someone else rather than putting the blame where it belongs.
CFK is about the facts available to all of us. Have you reviewed the documents? Have you read through the files? If not, then your comments on Green serve as nothing more than an attempt to distract us from the need for vigilence.
Take your fight to Green by calling him or meeting with him since it's so personal to you. I've called him and talked about this stuff and he's been very cordial -- and no, we did not agree on every issue.
The fact is, this discussion isn't about Tic-Toc, Anonymous, or me -- it's about CFK and the subsequent investigations resulting from the discovery of the mismanagement of CFK. Anything else is just an attempt to divert the conversation, the focus, and to attempt to create a divide in the misfit toys.
So can we get back to the discussion of the topic at hand? If you want to discuss Tic-Toc, then I'd suggest you e-mail Jamie and ask her to start a thread on that topic.
I threaten people with the law and things that are legal to do, if Gary Frank is complicit then I want his license, it IUPA and the FOP want to raise money unhindered then I want their help, If RedCrone is guilty then I want them arrested and in prison. I have said I have not broke the law, yet, and as I do not enjoy the protections you enjoy from the police department our the government, you can rest assured I will take any and all action necessary to defend myself from attacks and to protect the Constitution of the United States. And dont you ever forget it.
Now go back to your jr. high and tell them you played with the big boys during show and tell and lost. You are out of your element and out of your league, AND you live in a glass house.
Dear Larry, by not admonishing Tic Toc, you are complicit. Sorry, but it is what it is. You can try to divert the attention from that charge, but by not addressing it, you are admitting it.
Dear Tic Toc, keep it up. You work for me now. Isn't that how you put it. BTW, I don't enjoy any special protection from any police or Government. You have no idea who I am and you should not speculate.
Rev Green,
This poster does have a point. Why don't you reject the rather vile posts coming from this Tic Toc person?
I know your a fool who thinks he is smarter then he his, that's a start. Leave me out of your bull shit and try to defend your friends, or I will start looking for how you know them. I wont be responding to you anymore, you are trying to divert the attention to me, and away from the crooks who diverted the money from DARE to their private slush funds. I suggest that you go straight to the cops if you think I have committed a crime. Otherwise, shut the F up.
And for everyone else, please feel free to "admonish" me till your hearts content, matter a of fact I encourage it so we can get this idiot to shit up or go to the crooked cops and file a charge against me.
I'm waiting everyone, make it good, I can take it :-)
Hope that helps you sparky. Now lets get back to the issue at hand, locking up your friends in a maximum security prison.
Give RedCrone a call and tell them you are the reason I am not helping anymore in their future and their guilty asses will serve their whole sentences.
Tic Toc, what's the matter? Take the meds.
opps, guess I broke my own rule and addressed you again, better go run to the cops and tell them I borke a law LOL.
Thats it for this waste of a good computer LOL
Have a nice day!
Wow, Tic Toc, I think you are the primary poster on this site. You and Rev Green. You post as yourself. You post as "Island". It's really just you and Green, isn't it?
ha ha ha ha
Tic-Toc -- shame on you. You're frightening some of these poor folks. Bless their little hearts, please mind your manners so as not to offend their gentile nature. The truth is difficult for some people to handle. Now go and be a good little sheep and get back in line with the rest of the pack. I wouldn't want you to get lost and take a sip of KoolAid.
Yep, it was just me and Tic-Toc demanding justice out in front of city hall. Just the two of us -- creating all sorts of trouble -- being radical -- and daring to demand an open and honest government. I think "Anonymous" has many more posts than Tic-Toc or I have.
Larry, your sarcasm is very becoming a man of God. How proud your parents must be.
Tic Toc posts as anonymous... most of his posts are. He also posts as "Island" and occasionally signs as "Tic Toc". Too funny.
Why, thank you
If I was there it was only through the use of RedCrones smoke and mirrors.
And as to the admonishment, I can only say
THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER ONE! LOL
Tic Toc, if you were where? What are you talking about?
Tic Toc posts as anonymous... most of his posts are. He also posts as "Island" and occasionally signs as "Tic Toc". Too funny.
WOW, the level of brain power coming from that side of the room could not even toast bread....lightly LOL
I have a nomination for Chief of Police, it might be a step up from Crone LOL
Tic Toc, I thought you were going to take your meds? Rev Green, perhaps he needs some spiritual counseling? Oh wait, too busy with politics to care, huh?
As an outsider I have no dog in this fight but have been following the threads since this story broke. The reason is simple. No law enforcement officer is above the law. While no criminal charges have been filed that does not mean they will not be filed in the future. As a general rule, investigations move slowly. From my perspective that is not necessarily a bad thing. Those investigating should move every rock in order to find the truth.
There are clearly enough questionable materials to warrant the various investigations into CFK. And in truth even if we assume that the former Chief is innocent, as we should do until proven guilt in a court of law, he is certainly by his own admission a poor record keeper and accountant. Given that, I do not have any issue with his termination.
On the other topics that seem to have taken over this particular thread…I have no problem with a minister being active in politics and standing up for what he thinks is right. At the end of the day it is he who must account for his actions and it is not our place to shout anyone down for their opinions. The freedom of speech and expression is one of the greatest rights that we as Americans have.
As for Tic Toc…he too has the right to his opinions and should not be ridiculed for them. While I may agree that his posts sometimes get a bit confusing and stray from the general topic of a thread he is fighting in his own way for what he thinks is right. Just as others here on both sides of these issues are fighting for what they believe is right.
Isn’t America great…..
Dear Outsider,
Nice post. I hope you are also defending my right to post what I think. I assume you are.
The problem is that the good Reverend has already tried and convicted those who he thinks are guilty. There is no presumption of innocence. But it runs much deeper than this whole CFK issue.... it goes back much farther than that. There are motives.
There are those who stand on a soapbox that demand accountability. Nothing wrong with that. But, those who stand on that soapbox are also subject to the same demands, aren't they? or do they have some sort of immunity?
The CFK is being audited and Crone is under criminal investigation. Those will progress as they should at whatever speed required. There is no coverup, especially the Criminal Investigation.
Soapbox? You're actually accusing someone else of being on a soap box? And exactly how do you know for sure that Tic-Toc posts under all those aliases? How do we know you aren't the same as BobBob or some other anonymous poster? You sure do make a lot of accusations but have nothing in the way of support for your statements. All you can do is throw mud because you disagree with someone else's position. Sad part is you probably don't even see the irony in the fact that you've judged/convicted Green. So much for the log in your own eye, huh?
And talk about egotistical ... "I hope you're also defending my right to post what I think" ... boo hoo hoo
And while we're on the topic of motives ... what are your motives? I imagine you'll say you don't have an motives, because you're too good for such things. I don't even know what Green's motives are, but you seem to know because they apparently go "way back."
Didn't you accuse Green of being a big conspiracy nut? I haven't seen him saying anything about "it running much deeper than that."
At least Green keeps the comments on target and backs up his position with evidence to support his thoughts. While you're spending so much time attacking people with your "thoughts" the rest of us are on here trying to have an intelligent discussion about the facts of the situation -- something you appear to not be interested in. There are many of us who have the same thoughts about you and your posts.
It's a pity that you missed the point completely. And I do mean completely. Simple minds, so easily fooled by a psychopath (Tic Toc) who is not even from Mooresville and claims he knows no one there. He claims that he just knows all about the cops and that they are all guilty. Whether they are or not, who the heck is this Tic Toc guy that has all of you so hyped up?
Then we have the irreverent Reverend, who does not condemn the threatening antics of this Tic Toc fellow.
To those that say I am trying to distract the conversation, I ask what else are you supposed to be doing? Am I interrupting your investigation? I don't think so, that is happening anyways and not by you. This is a discussion thread and I am discussing.
I am asking a very valid question. Why is a man of God not outraged by a nutjob who hates cops that makes very threatening posts here, including veiled threats of going outside the law. Why does Green not condemn it? In fact, why does Green defend him and actually act sarcastic and cozy up to a psychopath? Why? Because the psychopath is on the Reverend's side. Not the types of actions, or inactions, that you would expect from a man of God is it?
I have asked perfectly legitimate questions, to which I am ridiculed. I won't be bullied, especially by Tic Toc who keeps trying to intimidate me. Won't work. I'm not easily intimidated.
Tic Toc needs to grow up and get a life. The reverend needs a little reflection and self examination. Again, all my opinion. I have no beef with the rest of you. I just ask, why would you follow these two?
I don't see anybody responding to Tic-Toc other than you. You're the one with a beef with Tic-Toc so you deal with it and quit asking someone else to step in and condemn him/her for you. Whether Green condemns Tic-Toc or not is not pertinent to the situation and I have no clue why you're so fixated on those two. If you're so concerned about Green's ego, then why do you keep feeding it by bringing him into the discussion.
This has nothing to do with Tic-Toc or Green. I don't follow either one. I have my own thoughts and my own mind. I am capable of forming my own opinins and thoughts. If you don't like what Tic-Toc says then do what I do and skip past them.
Be careful though, because you're coming very close to being and doing exactly what you accuse those two of doing.
And didn't you say this Anonymous?
There are those who stand on a soapbox that demand accountability. Nothing wrong with that. But, those who stand on that soapbox are also subject to the same demands, aren't they? or do they have some sort of immunity?
I don't think you have immunity either. And no, you're not interrupting the investigation but your focus is not on the same thing as mine. I am more intersted in knowing the results of the internal investigation, why the town has not already secured the additional firm, and has not lived up to public statements that the commissioners would be kept informed throughout the process.
This discussion is about the town and the town management's lack of leadership. Your focus is elsewhere, so therefore you are attempting to distract the conversation to what yo want it to be.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patric Henry
Luke 23:34 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Some one is on your side.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patric Henry
The only right is what is after my constitution; the only wrong is what is against it.
Author: Ralph Waldo Emerson
9:40 -- to whom are you referring when you say that someone's on your side?
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
-- Patrick Henry
"The strength of the Constitution, lies in the will of the people to defend it."
-- Thomas Edison
"No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words 'no' and 'not' employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights."
-- Edmund A. Opitz
“I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag”
Craig Washington quotes
“I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag”
Craig Washington quotes
"It is impossible to preserve the integrity of a government like ours if we deny to any class in our community the equal protection of the laws."
-- Patrick J. Healy and Ng poon chew
“Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties.”
Abraham Lincoln quotes
“"The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men." -Samuel Adams”
boldbrains
Sam Adams quotes
“From Watergate we learned what generations before us have known; our Constitution works. And during Watergate years it was interpreted again so as to reaffirm that no one - absolutely no one - is above the law.”
Leon Jaworski quotes
“The Constitution is the guide which I never will abandon”
George Washington quotes
“Our Constitution was not written in the sands to be washed away by each wave of new judges blown in by each successive political wind.”
Hugo Black quotes
“The Framers [of the Constitution] knew that free speech is the friend of change and revolution. But they also knew that it is always the deadliest enemy of tyranny.”
Hugo Black quotes
Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it.
Author: Malcolm X
Someone has not been taking their medication again.....
Perhaps you need some koolaid to wash them down with.
I'm not the one who is posting all sorts of quotes.
Perhaps you should
There is a fine line between democracy and anarchy. Anarchists often quote the same sayings from hundreds of years ago.
To bad everyone here advocates THE LAW!
Okay everybody. Stop the spitting matches already. The mayor promised us a bunch of "stuff" (you can go read the Gatton Report posted on July 8) over 2 months ago. Where is the "stuff"???? Where is the evidence room inventory? Where are the FIRST audit results? Where is the supposed SECOND firm that's going to do the SECOND audit? Where is the report by the Andrews guy? Where is all this stuff? Do they think we're all dummies and are going to just forget about this? Maybe before Gatton's blog, we might have. I'll be the first to admit it. I would have forgotten. But with the blog, NOT A CHANCE! Hey you! Mayor! I'm talking to YOU! Give me my damned investigation reports!!! I've paid for them with my tax dollars and I WANT THEM!
4:38
If Frank "Bowtie" Rader is blueblood, my dog is the Queen of England. His only pedigree extends to a stupid mule named Jennie.
If you think he's all that check him out with The House of the Lord Lyon in Scotland or whatever berg he matriculated from. The above will cover England and her territories. I'd hardly call him weel-mannered. He is a pompous fool.
good grief people
DID-DID NOT DID-DID NOT-MOM HE'S LOOKING AT ME-MOM HE TOUCHED ME-MOM HE'S CALLING ME NAMES, MAKE HIM STOP!!!!
MOM HE CALLED ME A COOTY FACE AND A POOPOO HEAD.
Give it a rest people, and if folks don't want to post their names(you 2 retired seniors who like to point fingers)it's none of anybodys friggin' business.
Rodney page
704-662-0002
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