(To see the entire accompanying video, which includes seven short clips, visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/jagatton)
When relatively little information was available about Cops for Kids and the discrepancies in the organization’s financial records, Commissioner Frank Rader had no problem taking a stance on the issue – showing up at “roll-call meetings” at the police department to tell officers that the “only story making sense” was that of then-Police Chief John Crone, who had sole discretion over the Cops for Kids funds.
But now that more information has been made available – and now that the town has fired the police chief – Rader refuses to take a stance on the issue, citing ongoing investigations and “personnel policies” that supposedly prevent him from talking.
At his “ToM Discourse” meeting last night, Rader repeatedly contradicted himself and gave half-answers to pointed – and many times, confrontational – questions from the 20-some attendees.
Rader admitted that he attended the police department staff meetings and told officers that they could write letters of support for Crone – who was on paid suspension at the time and the subject of active personnel and criminal investigations – as long as they did so in their own time and using their own personal resources. Rader also admitted that he told officers that “the only story that was making sense” was Crone’s.
Rader said his visits to the police department were “in line with what I’ve done before.” He said he visits the police department on a “fairly routine” basis and has “cooked hot dogs” for police officers and oftentimes rides along with them on weekend nights.
Rader displayed for the attendees at Wednesday night’s meeting the anonymous letter that was mailed to John Crone before he was suspended – the same letter that Rader distributed to the media, shared with police officers, and has speculated as the cause for launching the media probe into the Cops for Kids records.
His display of the letter – and his coining of it as “vile” – kicked off 45 minutes of lively discussion at the meeting on Wednesday evening.
Rader said he shared the letter with officers during the roll-call meetings at the police department because the anonymous letter was “the first documentation anyone saw” about Cops for Kids.
But that is not true.
The Gatton Report posted its first entry on Cops for Kids on June 27 (http://thegattonreport.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-is-cops-for-kids.html). The first mention of the anonymous letter was more than a week later, on July 7, when Crone showed a copy of it on camera to a WSOC-TV reporter (http://www.wsoctv.com/news/16813270/detail.html). That very night, the town placed Crone on paid suspension.
Commissioners – including Rader – were unaware of the anonymous letter until that time; in fact, the town didn’t have a copy of the letter until after July 14.
Here’s how we know: After Crone mentioned the letter in television newscasts, the Report e-mailed Town Attorney Steve Gambill on July 10, asking for a copy of the letter, a public record. Gambill responded on July 11: “I do not have it nor have I seen it. I also do not know in what capacity (Crone) received it or where it was received.”
Responding to a second request for a copy of the letter, Gambill stated in a July 14 e-mail: “I have no details regarding the anonymous letter.”
It wasn’t until July 17 – almost three weeks after the Report’s first Cops for Kids entry … 13 days after the Report and Tribune published the first articles about Cops for Kids … and 10 days after Crone was placed on paid leave – that Gambill provided the letter to the Report. Therefore, he must have provided the letter to commissioners sometime between July 14 and July 17 – long after the Report and the Tribune had published their articles that detailed Cops for Kids’ financial discrepancies. Rader acknowledged on Wednesday that it was Gambill who provided the town board with a copy of the letter.
This proves the letter had nothing to do with the initiation of the Cops for Kids investigation by the media, the public or the town. But Rader continues to insist otherwise because he believes the “vile” letter, which is angry and accusatory and a bit over-the-top, casts all of Crone's critics as unhinged and ill-informed.
Rader was also dishonest in his responses to attendees who repeatedly asked the at-large commissioner if he had ever seen the May 2008 deposit slip showing money had been moved from the police department evidence room into the Cops for Kids account. “I’ve never seen it,” Rader said. “No means no. I have never seen the deposit slip.”
But that is not exactly true either. Commissioners, collectively, were shown the deposit slip on July 7.
Rader was asked during Wednesday’s meeting why he saw fit to distribute the anonymous letter … but didn’t see fit to circulate any of the evidence that points to wrongdoing on Crone’s part. Rader was asked if the anonymous letter “carries more weight” than the deposit slip, but Rader failed to answer, responding only with: “It’s under investigation.”
One resident, from the back of the room, quipped: “So is the police department, but you talked to them.”
Local attorney Cliff Homesley asked Rader if he considered that his actions – specifically, telling officers that they could write letters of support for Crone – was undermining the acting police chief, Carl Robbins, who had previously instructed his officers to stay out of the situation. Rader responded that he does not believe his actions undermined Robbins and his orders.
When asked by local pastor and community activist Larry Green: “who invited you to the police department to make the presentations?” Rader responded: “Me.” When asked what gave him the right or the authority to make those presentations, Rader pulled a town identification card from his pocket and said “this.”
He said the reason he took it upon himself to attend the roll-call meetings without the knowledge or consent of fellow commissioners or the police department is “because I’m a commissioner” and because “morale (at the police department) was pretty d-a-m-n low.”
But Michael Roessler, a former investigative reporter for the Mooresville Tribune, asked Rader exactly how passing around a “vile” letter to police officers was supposed to boost morale.
Rader didn’t offer a clear explanation.
Roessler asked if Rader would now disavow the statement he made to officers – that Crone’s story was the only one that made sense. But Rader wouldn’t answer that question, either, saying only that he had limited information at the time. Roessler asked: “Knowing now what you know now, do you stand by your statement?” But Rader still refused to answer, saying instead: “I’m not going to go there.”
Rader consistently hid behind “personnel” whenever he was asked tough questions – even when those questions were about policy and not personnel. He found it acceptable to address police officers about a pending personnel matter that was also an active criminal investigation. In fact, he said: “I see it as my job.” But when asked to address policy-specific concerns, such as to form an opinion on whether the assistant town manager position should be eliminated – or to provide an opinion about standards that the town manager should be given to determine when an employee should be terminated – Rader declined to comment, citing “personnel."
Roessler called Rader to task on that, saying: “You can’t hide behind personnel on one hand and use it as justification for your actions on the other.”
Rader “congratulated” Roessler, saying on more than one occasion: “You must have done well in Inference 101.”
But Roessler remained focused on the matter at hand, telling Rader: “You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.” Citing the commissioner’s “double-talk and nonsense,” Roessler said: “This is just unacceptable, sir.”
Rader admitted that he has not so much as asked Assistant/Interim Town Manager Erskine Smith about why he fired Crone. Instead, Rader insists that he has absolutely no curiosity about it … even though one short month ago, Crone’s version of the story was the only one that Rader found legitimate.
Rader also said that he believes that Smith – who has been serving as interim town manager since February – is not under the control or authority of the town board, thereby suggesting that Smith is absolutely immune from discipline from anyone until a new town manager is in place.
Green asked Rader about the proper procedure for citizens to file complaints against Erskine Smith for his role in the Cops for Kids fiasco – and how the citizens can demand Smith’s resignation. Rader told Green he could write a letter to commissioners. Green said he had already written a letter, and that “the response has been nothing.” Rader said no response “is another way of saying ‘no,’” but he told Green to feel free to write another letter.
Regarding the disciplining of the interim town manager, Rader said “that’s why we have town managers.” A citizen responded: “No. That’s why we have you.”
Rader said that as a commissioner, he deals with only two positions – the town manager and the town attorney. He continually said that “until the investigations are complete, I have no opinion.” At one point during the meeting, someone asked Rader what his standards are for employees, to which Rader responded: “I’m an elected official. I have no standards.”
A little commentary:
At the end of the day, the “ToM Discourse” was a demonstration of democracy at its finest – a spirited and robust debate between an elected official and his constituents, many of whom are dissatisfied with Rader’s performance and leadership – or lack thereof.
On the one hand, my hat is off to Rader for making himself available for such discourse. But on the other hand, the disingenuous nature of many of his responses left much to be desired.
Rader admitted to holding the meetings at the police department – which his critics rightfully find appalling. They criticize Rader for inappropriately injecting himself into a delicate process and potentially committing obstruction of justice by tainting the opinions of police officers, all of whom are potential witnesses in the matter.
Through his selective evasiveness – through his many contradictions – through his double-speak and half-answers – through his willingness to cite “personnel” to justify his actions, then hide behind “personnel” when the questions got tough – Rader demonstrated an abdication of his duties as a public official to answer questions from his constituents and thereby show them the respect they are owed.
Albeit, some people – including Rader – may claim that those in attendance last night were disrespectful themselves, simply because they firmly demanded answers from their elected official. At times, that meant that the attendees interrupted Rader. And occasionally, they raised their voices. If last night’s meeting had been a dinner party, then such behavior would rightfully be deemed rude. But it wasn’t a dinner party. It was democracy. It was an example of the people letting their elected official know that half-answers and nonsense from elected leaders are no longer acceptable to the citizens of Mooresville.
When those in power refuse to level with their constituents, then the constituents have every right to escalate and make demands and interrupt and raise their voices, individually or collectively.
To hide behind “decorum” – as Mayor Bill Thunberg attempted to do last month when trying to silence protestors who marched on Town Hall when they clapped and cheered for speakers who challenged the behavior and decisions of Crone, Smith and others – is the strategy of someone who fears the people … and for good reason.
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186 comments:
I want to know when we are scheduling another demonstration to get rid of this incompetent blowhard!
WOA! Props to All you people who went, questioned and videotaped this buffoon for the rest of us to see. I feel nothing but contempt for this power abuser. I think what most disgusted me was seeing him pull out and wave his town badge/key around as if it gives him the right to rape and plunder this town to his heart's content.
The new town manager takes the throne this coming week.If the board doesn't let Erskine go and discipline Bowtie Frankie by then we need to raise some hell. By that I mean a protest rally, just like they did it in the sixties. Boycott their businesses, start an email/letter writing campaign. Picket Randy Marion for trying to intimidate the Tribune. We could call the ACLU and tell them our civil rights are being violated by town officials. That would make the corpse of Joe Knox walk down main street in protest of the openess. I say buy a bullhorn, pick a spot and go for it. The idiots think we're going away.
The only people "going away" are Crone, Smith and Rader. Away to jail. INDICT ALL THREE.
I have heard from one commssioner who says that in his conversation with Mr. Gambill he has been assured that the commissioners retain the ability to discipline Smith for his leadership while serving as Interim Town Manager.
I've heard from another that I have offended him by my threats == which I told him are promises of actions, not idle threats.
I'm all in favor of another march, but this Tuesday is out of the question for me. We can really protest whenever we want, and not necessarily on the day of one of their meetings.
How's September 3 from 5pm - 7pm and then invite all the commissioners, the town manager, and the interim town manager to a "People's Forum" where we can ask the questions we want to ask and give the new town manager a clear picture of our need for change. Anyone up for that?
There are those of us who can't do the things that these community activists are doing. We love them for it but we can't show it. We can't speak of it. But we can post anonymously on this blog.
This You-Tube segment must be sent to the D.A.'s office. There must be a call for an immediate investigation into Commissioner Rader's actions. If the D.A. refuses to commence an investigation, the Attorney General and the media must be informed of both Rader's actions and the D.A.'s continued refusal to enforce public corruption laws in Mooresville.
This is deadly serious business and it is beginning to look like a conspiracy to defraud the public instead of just one person defrauding the public. This commissioner, along with several others, have hijacked this town. His body language alone reflects a belief that he has immunity from any legal consequences.
In the meanwhile, the community must demand that Frank Rader recuses himself from any decision and vote that is in any way involved with Erskine Smith, Chief Crone, his firing, his employment, or Cops For Kids.
I was at the “ToM Discourse." When I walked out of the library I have to say I was in complete shock. I don't think I have ever met someone in my life as arrogant as Frank Rader. We need to DEMAND the right to a recall election. Frank Rader has to go. I can't believe that HE is who represents us in our town. Jaime, thank you for this blog; we have made huge progress in getting to know our elected officials and when November comes around I will be voting for a person and their stand....because I have been presented all of the facts. You have made all of this possible and now the voters of Mooresville will be able to make informed, educated choices on who they vote for and more importantly WHY they are voting for them! For those who feel as though they have to post anonymously and can’t participate in public forums, you MUST vote. That is the loudest voice of all.
"America: Where a man can say what he thinks, if he isn't afraid of his wife, his boss, his customer, his neighbors, or the government."
Joe Moore
For those that are interested,I called the International City/County Managers Association(202-289-ICMA) yesterday to ask if anyone has filed an ethics complaint against Erskine Smith. I was informed that is confidential, but he is listed as an active member. I inquired as to the complaint process and they informed me that any citizen can file by name or "anonymously" by sending a Request For A Formal Investigation. I was told that the complaint should be based on violations of the Code of Ethics and should include as much documentation as possible.(Articles, Letters to Commissioners, and even incorporate The Gatton Report)
The contact person for any complaint is:
Ms. Martha Perego
ICMA Director of Ethics
ICMA
777 North Capitol St.NE/ Suite 500
Washington, DC 20002
I was informed, that as with the law, there is no Statute of Limitations with an ethics violation.
This has been another public service announcement for the Town of Mooresville-Keep Mooresville Clean, Put Trash Where It Belongs.
Is this a joke?
I'm left with no words, and that should tell you something.
Tic Toc
Sorry I meant the video, not 10:31s comment,
How do I see the video?
Nevermind I found it!
can we get Rush Limbaugh in on this?
It looks like the days of the docile, complacent, and subservient citizen must finally be ending in Mooresville. And I thank God (and the activists!!) for that.
So, this is one of the members of the infamous RATS group? Any chance you can one day show us who the other members are on a feed? BTW, great job on interrogating this fool and catching it on camera.
I'm so glad you put up the videos of the Rader Ramblings "discourse." I still cannot stop shaking my head and keep going back to the videos thinking that I must have misunderstood Mr. Rader.
1. He has nothing to do with personnel, yet he advised officers about personnel policy.
2. Mr. Smith is the Assistant Town Manager and not the interim Town manager (the implication being that this is not a position directly supervised by the commissioners)
3. Mr. Rader lied about knowing about and seeing the infamous deposit slip.
4. Mr. Rader has not bothered to ask questions about anything.
Those facts/statements prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Rader is not fit for office.
Frank Rader has been exposed to be a liar. There is no going back from this fact now. The videotapes have clinched it. From this point forward, any vote that Frank Rader casts is a travesty and a mockery of the system. He relinquished the right to be considered a "representative of the people" when he made the decision to begin lying to them.
Where there any “Citizens for Ethical Treatment of Others” there last night to make sure Rader was being treated “ethically”?!
If there is another meeting, please do one thing add a microphone in the front so you can hear Radar. He would turn and you could not hear him at all. When he was facing the crowd you could barely hear him
Commissioner Frank Rader clearly has the ability and willingness to say outrageous lies with a straight face. Sadly, he is not the only one on our town board with such talents, but he is the only one who seems to have been caught red-handed - so far.
This must give pause to those honest folks who sit on the town board and who took Commissioner Rader's "facts" and "information" as truth when making serious decisions such as the cable purchase, CFK, Erskine Smith, CH2M Hill, just to name a few.
Let us hope they have now learned that anything represented by Mr. Rader can, and most likely, is a self-serving lie. One thing is for certain. If they forget that fact, they will then be just as responsible as the person whose lies they continue to buy into.
Regarding the mics.....if only we owned a cable system that could shoot these little chit-chats.
Frank....know anyone at MI-Connection that could do this for the townspeople?
Oh wait..that's right...you don't read blogs.
Clean government is open, honest, AND accountable. Rader gets an A from me for openness, a D for honesty, and an F for accountability. One out of three is better than nothing, I guess. It's a beginning. Let's see if the deaf and mute mayor can top that.
One major concern now that we know Rader is blatantly dishonest is his dissemination of lies and deceit using his "Rader At Large" publication. Until he does the honorable thing and steps down, one option would be to provide a rebuttal to that publication each and every time he sends one out, but the only way to do that is to obtain the list of people he sends his lies to. For starters, all residents on his list can be made aware of the existence of The Gatton Report, especially because it appears to be one of Mr. Rader's Achilles' heels.
As I watched these clips, I was thinking one of these shots of Rader should be in Webster's under "pompous old fool" or better yet "relic".
Mr. Rader was not too happy that a camera was present. He was not asked if that would be acceptable, so I doubt very seriously he would tolerate a microphone.
I say when we start our boycott we should include all law firms in Mooresville. Lawyers on our side (more than 2) would actually be a much better scenario than merchants. They already have a working knowlege of the system and the respect of many of their peers. I hate it for atleast the 2 on our side but they will understand. I'm sure Davidson or Troutman have some reputable law firms.
Larry, you wrote that Rader is claiming "2. Mr. Smith is the Assistant Town Manager and not the interim Town manager (the implication being that this is not a position directly supervised by the commissioners)". That is 100% incorrect. Smith was officially given the Interim Town Manager position, which according to the town charter immediately placed him under the direct supervision of the town board. That supervision included the responsibility of insuring Smith conducted the people's business competently and ethically. That supervision also included the ability to terminate Smith's employment with the town. Mr. Rader either is unaware of this or he is being intellectually dishonest for reasons unknown.
It's called "acting stupid when it suits you". Erskine's his "boy" and does his and Thunberg's bidding.
5:35 ... Yea, I realize all that. But as I reviewed the tape that statement struck me again. He actually tried to say that Mr. Smith is the assistant town manager and not the town manager. I think Mr. Rader is well aware of Mr. Smith's relationship with the board but was attempting to skirt around the question.
You Guys sounded really angry. It was truly a good laugh listening to the same questions over and over. Better luck next time!
BTW what happened to all of Rader's "rules"? I didn't notice any of the "rules" being followed by the disobedient and rebellious citizens!
I would have thought Rader would have put you all in Time Out!
Well I guess you aren't so emotional when someone lies right to your face, huh? Or when your tax dollars are wasted by a buffoon.Opened your new tax bill yet? That should get that blood pressure rising.
This was posted on the R&L site by someone named takeastand. I thought it would be good to post here. It is response to the meeting:
The meeting was painful to watch on YouTube. Radar constantly kep't his hands in his pockets, fiddled with a drink bottle or his laptop, looked at his watch and the clock, and moved with jerking motions. Based on; him sticking his neck out by going to the police department in defense of Crone, and his body language at this meeting, It is my opinion that he is somehow involved in Crone's doings. When things like this occur there is often a mentality of "If I go down, I'm taking you with me". With that in mind I always watch for those who leap to defend someone who has the deck stacked against them. Especially when the accused story has changed so many times. Now Radar is making statements that are inconsistant at best. looks like he is going to be a good deckhand and go down with the ship.
I agree with the last posters views. I saw that video and couldn't help but think how certain members of the Sheriffs office would probably do way worse than Radar did, if they would even agree to answer questions. I would like to see them have the opportunity to defend themselves, on camera about the accusations that were made on the post CRONE TERMINATED. Past experiences tell me that they would run and hide. At least Crone and Radar had the guts and audacity to speak in front of a camera.
Kudos to Frank. I thought he did rather well answering all the questions he legally could. He even kept his cool which is more than I can say to the other participants in the crowd. You may not like all his answers but I have not and did not hear any other commish's stand up in a public forum. You wanted open government and he atlest had a good start in my opinon. BTW who was it that kept asking the question about the deposit slip? I thought Raders response was great "you have asked the question 7 times and the answer is still no". You guys better stick to frying Crone bc thats the only new notch your going to be putting in your bed post. Too bad the camera wasn't pointed to the audience I would love to see how many shades of red faces were out there.
1:58 I contested my tax bill last year so it really wasn't much more. Every time I get a new evaluation on any of my properties I fight it. If you do the proper due dillegence it usally results in an unchanged evaluation and in some cases a lower one. You don't have to take it laying down.
When things like this occur there is often a mentality of "If I go down, I'm taking you with me".
7:22 am
That was very nicely said, however, the problem with that theory is that the ship Crone, Smith, Rader, Thunberg and Frank, is that the ship they think they are on, well, that is not the ship they are really on. The ship they are really on, is the ship that I am on and their ship is merely a dingy whose ropes are being severed, one by one by Jaime and everyone here on this board. We are all cutting the individual ropes, ie. The evidence room, 14-100, the lawsuit and so on, while me and mine are attempting to push it off the side of our ship, The USS Justice.
You see, these minnows were playing in the deep water, which is where I have been for years trolling, waiting for them to just touch that dingy, now they are caught up in something they know nothing about and probably will never comprehend anyway even if I told them why, but no matter what, I no longer need their dingy so it must be jettisoned. It is in the way of my ship getting to where it needs to go like so much dead weight.
And yes, I do have the mentality of “If I go down, I’m taking you with me” because I have already gone down years ago, make no mistake, I am back to take them with me, and now I am counting on these fools’ dingy, when it is pushed off my deck, to pull the rope attached to my life jacket to yank me back on deck as it falls. And it will, I can already feel the tugging.
And it is not just these deckhands, there are thousands of dinghy’s on my ship, each one illegally occupied by fraudulent fundraiser deckhands, it could have been any one of them, but my crewmate Jaime, tapped me on the shoulder and pointed to the dingy John Crone was hiding in, when I turned my head, I could see him peering out from under the tarp covering the tiny boat, and that’s when I knew I had him and I would figuratively be pulled back up.
Once I am back on deck folks, that is when I am really going to go to work, John Crone and company is just a warm up to the next step shoving the rest of these crappy things off my deck so we can pick up speed.
How is that for continuing out your thoughts? There is a bigger ocean then you all think, don’t just dip your foot in the water, dive the “F” in.
Tic Toc
In regard to repeatedly asking Rader about the deposit slip, maybe the guy was just making sure he drove home the point. And to make sure Rader had every opportunity to tell the truth instead of lying.
Look at this quote from the Gatton Report and see if it changes your view:
Rader was also dishonest in his responses to attendees who repeatedly asked the at-large commissioner if he had ever seen the May 2008 deposit slip showing money had been moved from the police department evidence room into the Cops for Kids account. “I’ve never seen it,” Rader said. “No means no. I have never seen the deposit slip.”
But that is not exactly true either. Commissioners, collectively, were shown the deposit slip on July 7.
Hey 10:39, yeah, good point. In fact, if Rader truly never saw the deposit slip, then he has completely abandoned his obligation to the taxpayers. It's the old "see no evil" mindset. Either way, as a citizen you have to be terribly concerned that your elected official would take such a cavalier attitude. I mean, he had no problem getting an anonymous letter and showing it to the police officers at their roll call but he couldn't bother to show them a deposit slip showing money coming out of the evidence room and into the bank account of the chief's charity. Kudos to the questioners for not simply accepting Rader's non answers or misrepresentations.
10:39 Although they may have been "collectively shown the deposit slip" It's hard to say if Frank actually "looked" at the slip himself. Was it projected on a screen? I don't know the answer to that but I'm sure one of you guys can convey in what manner they collectively saw the slip. I thank Jamie for the video it allowed me to make my own opion. I'm not proclaiming anyones innocent I'm just not convinced of anyone elses guilt other than Crone. It will be intresting to see the results of the investigations.
We had to repeatedly ask the same questions because Rader wouldn't answer them directly and honestly. He spent more time dancing around than anything. The best part of the video is we have now captured his lies and there's no way he can get around it.
He did see the deposit slip and had the opportunity to discuss it. The existence was verified by Ms. Setzer in the presence of all the town commissioners.
He has violated the town's approved code of ethics for elected officials.
He will be out of office very soon.
Rader's deficiency is his refusal to study or accept information that contradicts his opinion. This runs from CH2MHill through the cable mess that he promoted through his declared refusal to look at documented evidence while at the same time telling officers he believed Crone's version of events, whatever that was. What is troubling is that he was clearly wrong in the way he handled this but is unwilling to admit that. Regardless of his level of complicity, it is his ability to entrench in an indefensible position, as broadcast for all to see, that damages his credibility more than anything.
Larry Green,
Take a 50,000 foot look at what you said pertaining to the deposit slip, "the existence was verified by Ms. Setzer". Where does that say anything about him or the others actually seeing the slip?
I'm asking how you know he saw it and what manner it was presented. Did anyone see him hold it and look at it? Could he have just heard it presented to the board and not actually looked at the slip? Hearing is not seeing. I disagree with your opinion on answering the questions. I found it frustrating that more questons were not asked. It seemed he had to answer the same questions multiple times. You may not like the answers but thats what he gave you. Like you said you had it on video why not move on to another question so you could gather all the documentation possible. Jamie had a great list of questions I just wish more of them would have been asked.
He actually was presented with the deposit slip during ... it was held up at a very minimum ... discussed in his presence ... verified by Ms. Setzer ... but Frank has no knowledge of such a document and has never seen it. It was presented to the entire board, which I would presume includes Mr. Rader.
As to the questions, I wish more folk were there to ask more questions. I couldn't get a clear answer from him regarding his involvement in personnel matters and why he advised officers on personnel items. If you were present, why didn't you ask? If you weren't there, then why not contact Mr. Rader to get the answers to the questions?
At some point we have to stop hiding behind anonymity in order to get the answers we want. I'm not knocking you for posting anonymously, but I'm not responsible for asking questions you wish to have answered.
For this lame Rader crony to try and insinuate Rader didn't ACTUALLY SEE the deposit slip is like Bill Clinton trying to tell us he DID NOT INHALE and he DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN. Go away Rader crony. The grownups are talking.
12:04 PM. You should call up Commissioner Frank Rader and offer him your thoughts. He may need a good defense at some point in an actual court of law. I watched the film and I am absolutely convinced this man committed obstruction of justice and attempted to tamper with potential witnesses. Those are serious crimes and must be equally and uniformly enforced.
Nice comment!! With those words, would you consider yourself a grown up?
I am absolutely convinced this man committed the same crimes as Crone did. He requested and took money and turned it over to cops for kids. Smith and Thunberg too. They were al in on the deal, they were all benifiting from the money raised in one way or another.
They are all going to prison, with Crone coming out the best as his sorry butt will be the first to sing like a canary. (and by best I mean he will only get 20 years) The rest will just be canary's in the mine.
I don't live in your community but many of us have been watching what's been happening in Mooresville for several years now. I have to say you've become a model for how to change government from the bottom up. My daddy always told me "you can't fight City Hall". Later found out that's what his daddy had told him and on and on it had been for generations. It's a big lie that's told from father to son without a thought. But I've seen you fight City Hall in Mooresville and I've seen you win. When I saw the segments Ms. Gatton posted all I could think about is that I can do the same thing. If you can do it we can do it. When I read this blog and when I saw your people marching in the streets I think why not us? It's possible. I'm seeing that it's possible instead of just wishing it. Sorry for the rambling. Couldn't help it. Keep going. Don't stop. there're alot more folk than your own townpeople watching you and learning. We gotta take our communities back oen by one.
I really don't think Rader was per se financially benefiting from CFK. What I think happened was that he saw right away that CFK was connected to his beloved golf course and all this was gonna be more bad publicity for his "Baby" and so he decided early on he was gonna throw his weight on the side that was gonna hush everything up sweep it under the rug whatever. Now do i think that's ok? No. It goes to show when you get too attached to something like a golf course you can get yourself on a bad slippery slope. Next thing you know you're trying to avoid getting kicked out of office and jail time. Bad judgment can sink us just that quick. May not be fair but it's the way it is.
For those of you who may not know what corruption and corrupt behavior looks like, please view the "You Tubes". This is how corruption breeds and thrives. One innocuous-looking grandfatherly elected official acting under his cloak of legitimacy to support the corrupt habits of those he likes or needs or is friends with. This is where it all starts – and ends. It’s a whole lot simpler than one would think.
Larry I must have missed the part of the tape where Rader said he had no knowlege of the deposit slip at this time. I did hear him say he did not see the deposit slip. I may have missed it in error. Could you please tell me which segement and time frame to watch.
Even if more people would have been there no more questions would have been able to be asked. It sounded like Rader was fielding questions from a field of reporters after a winning/losing Super Bowl game. There were only 20 odd people in the room with the same mission why could it have not been a little less antimated and more business like. You guys are asking for a responsible open government but your manner in questioning seems to suggest you would rather live in a chaotic knee jerk reaction type of government. I can tell you where knee jerk reactions will get you....the court room with large pending lawsuits ... talk about tax dollars being wasted. I know you guys are frustrated but justice in our court system moves at a snails pace.
I am sorry, I did not say he was benefiting financially, I said he is benefiting one way or the other, benefiting with political currency is the same as benefiting financially, you just get the money later.
But YES, they all did. Perhaps I was not clear or you misread me. Hope that clears it up.
This would be all be funny if it weren't so tragic. Long after Rader’s no more than a bad memory we and our children will still be paying for the mistakes of this man’s arrogance and his ability to have tricked his colleagues into voting his way by misrepresenting himself as the “Numbers Man on the board”.
I just read that "somebody" couldn't hear the councilman. I turned up my speakers to full and I was able to hear him pretty well. For anyone who can't hear I suggest they log on to the Gatton Report on another computer with better speakers. It is definitely worth hearing all of this. Frank Rader has dug several very large holes for himself. He and his friends such as the one on this blog will have to be alot more creative than "he did not actually lay his two eyes on the slip, focus his vision and register the information into his conscious brain" if he's going to get out of those holes.
Yeah, it may be easy enough to lie to the public and the media, but I hope Frank Rader wears his diaper for when he’s gotta sit in front of a grand jury that's breathing down his neck. We’ll see then how committed he is to his lies.
If it ends up being so tragic every board member should be held responsible that cast a vote in favor. I would hope they wouldn't follow one mans opinon blindly, if so shame on them for their lack of personal research.
I just read my Mooresville Tribune. Kudos to Megan Pillow for covering this meeting and not softballing it for Commissioner Frank Rader. He had nobody to blame but himself for the quandary he is now in.
I also want to give kudos to Reverend Larry Green for his perseverance and for his refusal to be silenced by earlier critics who wanted all of us to believe that somehow his activism stands in contradiction to his faith.
I do wish the camera had captured those who were present and had the courage to pepper Rader with questions and call him on his "nonsense". I want to know who they are so that I can shake their hand next time I run into one of them. Just like the protest march I've never seen or heard anything like this happen in Mooresville in the several decades I have lived here.
Lastly I understand that two of the loudest interrogators were local attorneys. It is good to know we have at least two bull dog lawyers in town who are willing to stand up, be outspoken, go up against a corrupt system and actually do what lawyers are supposed to do - be watchdogs for the legal system. I'm going to sleep better at night knowing those two live in my community and are there for me if I should ever get trampled.
But let's face it. None of this would be happening if it weren't for a young wife and mother who decided one day that she was not going to put up with any of it any longer. I tip my hat to Ms. Gatton, a lady in every sense of that word.
Liar Liar Pants On Fire…I could swear this man’s nose was longer in the last clip than it was in the first one. Try this. Turn the sound off and watch him. If that's not lying body language nothign is!
The lone Rader supporter wrote earlier that he/she wishes more questions had been asked, yet their comments lead one to believe they were not present at this meeting. Why were they not there to ask questions? Or perhaps "they" were - wearing a bowtie and standing in front of the room?
I was in attendance at Wednesday night's meeting although I chose to not ask any questions. It was clear to me that I would simply be wasting my breath as Mr. Rader clearly had no intention of honestly answering anyone's questions. I was most intrigued, however, by his clear reluctance and resistance to even remotely entertain the idea of the assistant town manager's position being eliminated. He grew very uncomfortable and even more evasive than usual when questioned about this. To borrow two of Mr. Rader's favorite words, I am now "speculating" and "inferring" that he is somehow very involved with Erskine Smith who happens to be the interim town manager, hoping to escape to his high-paying, low-accountability assistant town manager position as soon as is possible.
Frank Rader is one of Erskine Smith's Sugar Daddies. Without Erskine, Rader is politically crippled and he knows it. He may have a town badge in his pocket but he can't get into "stuff" the way Erskine can without being noticed, espeically now with everybody watching. Erskine's the courier who takes and brings "information" back and forth in a way that can benefit his Sugar Daddies and leave everybody else out. Then they tell him what to sit on and what to move on. It's a system that's worked for eons in Town Hall. Worked that is for the crooked. The rest of us just have to grin and bear it. Rader is one of the several up there who need Erskine and Erskine nows it and that's why there's always a little prance in his step.
Whether Rader "saw" the deposit slip, was in the room when the deposit slip was brought up, read about the deposit slip in the paper....it really doesn't matter. As a public official it was his duty to learn all he could about what was an obvious piece of incriminating evidence against the Chief.
When this whole subject came up I thought Rader may be loyal to his fellow "good ol' boy" but probably had no legal worries. As time goes on I start to wonder...we're peeling the skin off of an onion here.
Yep. I think the previous poster's onto something. It sounds like Rader may have gone to a lawyer who said to him, while wildly winking and nodding, "You didn't actually SEE that deposit slip, RIGHT Frank? I mean, if you didn't actually SEE it they can't charge you with witness tampering and obstruction of justice. So let's try this again Frank. Did you actually SEE the deposit slip?" Here's hoping that that lawyer wasn't the town attorney because if it was then we've got much bigger problems than just Rader's lying.
A quick lesson in detecting lies.
Vrij catalogues seven traits found in good liars. Good liars, he says, tend to be (1) well prepared, (2) original, (3) able to think quickly, (4) eloquent, (5) able to call up good memories, (6) devoid of feelings of fear, guilt or "duping delight" (conspicuous pleasure) when lying, and (7) possessed of good acting skills.
Needless to say, we all know many people who have all these traits. Ironically, and disturbingly, these traits are also essential for those who enter public office, as well.
First, non-verbal signs like lack of eye contact, fidgeting, stuttering, pauses, slow speech, a higher-pitched voice, body stiffening, or emotional facial expressions are not necessarily signs of lying. No one should conclude any of these actions alone identifies lying, for each can indicate many other things instead.
Also, good liars often exhibit none of these traits when they lie. As Vrij explains, "there is no typical non-verbal behavior that indicates deception." Indeed, studies indicate that non-verbal behavior tells us the least about a person's truthfulness - a finding that is opposite to widespread public assumptions that a liar can best be caught through a stutter, tic, or evasive eye movement.
Second, television and (most) witness boxes in courtrooms are not designed to facilitate observing liars. Typically, television gives only a head shot, and many witness boxes often show the witness only from the chest up. Yet Vrij instructs that "looking at movements of the hands, fingers, legs and feet can be particularly useful in detecting lies ... the observer has to scrutinize the potential liar carefully and observe them almost literally from head to foot." Vrij notes that "eye movements do not give reliable information about deception."
Third, healthy suspicion uncovers lies. Law enforcement is suspicious; that's their job. Journalists should be more suspicious when public officials make dubious statements. The "trust me, I know what I'm talking about" posture of many public officials should be questioned more often. Those in public life should have the ability to back up their contentions with evidence, and the public should demand they do so more often.
Fourth, lies are flushed out by probing. In public affairs, this means the surrogates like members of Congress or journalist must do the probing.
Unfortunately, tough probes are typically avoided, particularly when televised. As Vrij's studies show, however, when interrogators "keep on asking questions about the topic" when they suspect a lie, it becomes increasingly difficult for the liar to lie about the topic.
This is because liars must avoid self-contradictions. To do so, they have to constantly remember what they have said on a given subject, while at the same time continuing to contain their emotions while lying. Doing both at once is a challenge even for a good liar.
Repeated questioning, however, is tricky. Studies also show that the liar who repeats the lie can actually gain credibility with observers. Perhaps that is because the repetitive questioner seems to be harassing the subject of questioning - or because the liars who are able to be consistent, thereby bolster the audience's natural inclination to believe rather than doubt.
Fifth, liars are more likely caught when others are well informed. As lawyers know, or painfully learn at some stage, during a trial a lawyer should never ask a question to which you don't know the answer. Lawyers try to learn all the answers ahead of time through depositions - which are often taken in civil cases for no reason other than to tie down the answer of a witness or party, so that their answer at trial will either be predictable, or able to be impeached with a deposition transcript. Depositions also educate the interrogator to know when the witness is lying.
The same holds true in public interrogations of officials: If the interrogator knows the answer, he can frequently determine the truthfulness of the witness. Unfortunately, most members of Congress take little time to prepare to interrogate witnesses, and only a few journalists undertake such efforts.
Finally, Vrij's analysis of the nature of verbal statements that are indicative of lying is most revealing. While liars don't provide standard verbal clues, there are verbal criteria that can help discriminate between fact and fiction.
For example, Vrij notes that "[l]iars make more negative statements, give more implausible answers, give shorter responses, make fewer self-references and give more indirect replies." While the presence of one - or even many - of these factors is not proof that a lie has been told, they are flags that can raise suspicion.
A few classic whoppers confirm the point: "I'm not a crook" (R. Nixon - negative, brief, indirect and by that time, implausible), "I was out of the loop" (George H. W. Bush - negative, brief, indirect, and implausible given that he was Vice President at the time), "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman" (W. J. Clinton - negative, brief, indirect in that it does not mention Ms. Lewinsky by name, and in light of his admitted affair with Gennifer Flowers, somewhat implausible too).
A more recent example is this one: "I got to know Ken Lay [in 1994] when he was the head of the - what they call the Governor's Business Council in Texas.... I decided to leave him in place, just for the sake of continuity." (George W. Bush - indirect and implausible, but at least self-directed and relatively lengthy, showing traits of a good liar; and those who were well-informed quickly documented the lie).
We should improve our ability to tell lies from the truth - at minimum by putting public officials to the test more often.
Now if you read all that, use what you have learned and watch the video again. See what happens.
Cops know how to detect lies, (any of you want to confirm that) but they also know how to lie and be believable everytime.
Now go back and watch Crone, Smith, Rader and Thunberg on TV
Matter of fact, go back and watch them all, when you are done, you will know who is on your side and who is not for yourself.
Wait till you see what I see.
Good luck guys, Warden they would like connecting cells please.
I always thought Frank was arrogant, self centered, and really way too impressed with his incredible "-cyphering" powers....it appears he may not be smart after all.
I think they send politicians to jail for obstruction of justice.
Signs of Deception:
Body Language of Lies:
• Physical expression will be limited and stiff, with few arm and hand movements. Hand, arm and leg movement are toward their own body the liar takes up less space.
• A person who is lying to you will avoid making eye contact.
• Hands touching their face, throat & mouth. Touching or scratching the nose or behind their ear. Not likely to touch his chest/heart with an open hand.
Emotional Gestures & Contradiction
• Timing and duration of emotional gestures and emotions are off a normal pace. The display of emotion is delayed, stays longer it would naturally, then stops suddenly.
• Timing is off between emotions gestures/expressions and words. Example: Someone says "I love it!" when receiving a gift, and then smile after making that statement, rather then at the same time the statement is made.
• Gestures/expressions don’t match the verbal statement, such as frowning when saying “I love you.”
• Expressions are limited to mouth movements when someone is faking emotions (like happy, surprised, sad, awe, )instead of the whole face. For example; when someone smiles naturally their whole face is involved: jaw/cheek movement, eyes and forehead push down, etc.
Interactions and Reactions
• A guilty person gets defensive. An innocent person will often go on the offensive.
• A liar is uncomfortable facing his questioner/accuser and may turn his head or body away.
• A liar might unconsciously place objects (book, coffee cup, etc.) between themselves and you.
Verbal Context and Content
• A liar will use your words to make answer a question. When asked, “Did you eat the last cookie?” The liar answers, “No, I did not eat the last cookie.”
•A statement with a contraction is more likely to be truthful: “ I didn't do it” instead of “I did not do it”
LiarCard.com
• Liars sometimes avoid "lying" by not making direct statements. They imply answers instead of denying something directly.
• The guilty person may speak more than natural, adding unnecessary details to convince you... they are not comfortable with silence or pauses in the conversation.
• A liar may leave out pronouns and speak in a monotonous tone. When a truthful statement is made the pronoun is emphasized as much or more than the rest of the words in a statement.
• Words may be garbled and spoken softly, and syntax and grammar may be off. In other
words, his sentences will likely be muddled rather than emphasized.
Related Books:
Never be Lied to Again
Body Language
Other signs of a lie:
• If you believe someone is lying, then change subject of a conversation quickly, a liar follows along willingly and becomes more relaxed. The guilty wants the subject changed; an innocent person may be confused by the sudden change in topics and will want to back to the previous subject.
• Using humor or sarcasm to avoid a subject.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programing, Rader CSI
Complete with Fake badge, and ride alongs with cops any 15 year old can do.
Tic Toc
• A guilty person gets defensive. An innocent person will often go on the offensive.
This one here is THE most important of them all.
Put a pin in that, we will come back to it, right after I get this damn dingy off my ship.
Rader’s title is now officially changed from the “numbers man on the board” to the “pathological liar man on the board”. From this point on anybody on that board who believes anything Rader has to say will have no one to blame but themselves.
Here's an idea. Let's see if there's a permanent little "polygraph" device we can stick on Rader. Unless the thing is on, nobody listens to anything he's got to say. Kinda like the little thingie drunks have to breathe into before their car starts up. Somebody ought to invent something like that for elected officials who're proven liars and they gotta wear it before they vote and such. Seriously.
11:21, Did Rader vote on the issue of removing Crone based on that evidence of the deposit slip? If he didn't see the slip and voted anyway, he was derilict in his duty. If he objected, he could've recused himself from the vote.
well said 11:23, That captures Rader with the best accuracy and tact.
When I lived in my college frat, we had a real bad roach problem. We always knew when it was time to defumigate because the roaches would start coming out even at daytime.
Well, in the last month we've seen some so-called "leaders" come out and listened to them make public comments one way or another. There was Erskine Smith just looking as cocky as ever saying "it is what it is" on the news, and Rader saying something about how he was smarter than the rest of us in 8th grade and then flat out telling lies at his little "town meeting". The cockroaches are right out in plain sight now. It's time to defumigate.
Bottom line here is that the political patronage system in Mooresville is dying a painful, ugly and drawn-out death. Anybody who is not on board with progressive thinking is going to be left behind and wondering what in the world happened. Change is painful, but change is upon us.
There once was a government by guess
Which got the town into a real mess.
In the midst of its confusion
The leader had a brilliant solution
And blamed everything on the damned press.
When you can beat them with the facts and laws, I always say laugh when you are doing it. It will make you opponent feel better about being screwed.
What can I say, I'm a giver
I just hope that Prince Rader can find it in his heart to one day forgive us lower caste peons for being so uncouth and for offending his sensibilities and violating the respect that is due his particularly blueblood pedigree.
Deposit slip? What deposit slip? Uh, let's see. The one that was reported in the Tribune on July 4, available to any member of the board or the public who asked to see it from that day forward, a copy posted on this very blog a couple of weeks later. . .oh yeah, that deposit slip.
I love the way the questioners continued to challenge this guy. Never backing down. Can you believe that he admitted on tape that he actually told the cops that he believed Crone's story? But then look at the part where he acts like he has to check the calendar to see if he had any contact with Crone after July 4. So, how in the heck did he know what Crone's story was. From what I remember, Crone never addressed the deposit slip in his media interviews. Well, we are fortunate to have some folks in our town who will call these people on their b.s. instead of just rolling over and taking it when a town commissioner is trying to sell a phony bill of goods. Hopefully the Mayor will be at the Rader forum next month to answer some questions. Whatever you think of Rader, he did show up. You would think that Thunberg was on house arrest or something considering how little we have heard out of him in the midst of all of this.
Jaime, here's to you girlfriend! I started keeping up with your hits beginning of this month. You've had 40,000 hits in just one month on your blog! You're over 130,000 hits and you've only been up and running for 6 months. Who woulda thunk it of Mooresville? People here are listening baby! Who says all they care about is high school football?!!! Keep at 'em girl!
Welcome to the game..... D.A.R.E. program.
I just found out yesterday, that in some twisted world, the DARE program has been used in conjunction with the COPS for KIDS Program at the Golf Tourny.
Now what I want to know Mr. Crone, and the other idiots who are backing you, is WHAT WERE YOU THINKING. You and I both know that DARE Fundraising is fraud. You used the DARE program name to make your crappy group sound more authentic. You used a drug pitch I imagine.
Now one of you please tell me how taking all those trips wwith all that money raised in the name of the dare program is actually helping to keep "at risk youth" off drugs?
That is more fraud, using the name of the dare program is a clasic bait and switch for a fraud, or are you to stupid to know that?
To the DARE program national headquaters, you need to come audit this fools records or I will start to release your financial's until you are no longer able to raise any more any where in the United States, then I will go after you worldwide fund raising ability. I know your program does not work, I also know that it actually encourages teen drug use, so while this program is ineffective at worst, you made it even less effective by taking money you raised in the name of the program and diverted it to your fake ass cops for kids program for you and your officers to take all expenses paid trips all over the country. You know when people donated to DARE they sure did not think that they were buying you and your family these trips, they thought they were helping kids stay off drugs and that is the only thing you were allowed to use that money for, so you robbed these people as well.
How could you have sat your fat ass in your office day after day and pretended to be protecting and serving the people you took the money from, when the whole time you are stealing from them.
Crone, Smith Rader and Thunburg, you are all going to prison.
And one more thing, ALL of you, and I mean the entire police department in Mooresville, if you have a DARE sticker in your cars, rip it off, like you ripped off the population, none of you have a right to keep it on your car after what you did or let happen to these kids money.
Crone, I know what you smith rader and Thunberg have been up too,
turn yourselves in, RESIGN NOW BEFORE I REALLY GO TO WORK ON YOU!!
Here is a small slice of the drug pitch/
ie. We have the officers go out to the schools and we try to educate the kids on the problems we have out here on the streets with drugs."
Now where in there does it say we are going to take a bunch of fat cats and their kids on all expenses trips, I mean after all that is what you told the people giving the money.
On a side note, all you rich bastards that sent your kids to these trips, you did nothing wrong, so get your checkbooks out and repay that money to cops for kids that it cost to send your well off kids on these trips and let them give the kids intended a xmas this year like no other. It is your DUTY, you have the money, spread it around a little, try to help make this right.
Crone, dont you think that piggybacking your program onto the dare program is fraud, *the DARE program would think so, I promise) are you really all collectively this stupid. What do you think the DARE program is going to say when I tell them what you did?
I know exactly what they are going to say, Wheres our cut? Where is our 5%? What did you and your crooked money taking cops do with the rest of that money?
It is fraud just like your program is fraud, and it should be shut down too, but that is for another time and I promise, I will come back to you people.
What I want to know, Crone, you dumb ass, Did that burlyson, (or what ever his name is) get in your way of being a thief, I bet he did, and when I can prove it, I have a whole new list of laws you broke.
If I were that cop you fired from the DARE program I would be considering SUEING THE CRAP OUT OF YOU. Actually I would not consider it at all, I WOULD DO IT! I knew that that bunny crap was a cover for something or some reason that was not being said, I bet I just found it, did he threaten to turn you in Crone, is that what happened? Well guess what, you already have one lawsuit for this, is it so hard to believe that you did it twice? Hell you ripped off the same people many times in a row. I bet you even had them make there checks out to both groups to make it seem like they were giving to to separate groups, Double you money that way, dont you crone, that is how this particular fraud works best aint it crone. All the bad fundraisers have several deals going at once so that once you give your 100 dollars to one, you are then hit with the other, it makes it easier to rip off the same people more then once in a cycle.
Crone, who taught you how to do this, that's what I want to know, I want them in prison as well, come on, do the right thing and roll over and sing. Who and how did you get so close to this business that they taught you how to do this, you must have had something on them that was pretty good for them to teach you this. When I find out who it was, I promise you, I wont turn him over to the cops, but I will turn him over to other people so they can find out what the hell he was thinking.
You were doing this in 2005 which is what makes this so bad crone, you were doing this while others were being crucified in another county for the EXACT SAME THING! The only difference is you should have been in prison and I should have been free if the system of justice really worked in North Carolina. But it is so obvious to me that is does not. It will be obvious to the rest of you that it will again soon.
I wonder also why you fired 71 cops, I bet some knew you were stealing and would not go along with the program. Is that about right Crone, see now you are making me mad all over again.
To Officer Burllyson, sue the crap out of this fake human being when I prove what he did to you.
Now back to the dare program, here is a little something on how they get there money,I figure if no one else is going to talk I will, at least for a minute.
A fundraising effort for a drug prevention program is raising eyebrows in Lincoln. Some call it a scam while others say it's unethical
A local company is contracted to sell licensed products as a fundraiser for the DARE or Drug Abuse Resistance Education program. But the fundraiser has some people questioning where the money goes.
Nebraska State Fair
You may have seen them outside some local businesses. They have tables full of DARE products with people trying to sell them.
A 23-year-old Lincoln resident, who didn't want to be identified, once worked at one of the tables. She felt she was forced to lie or avoid questions when people asked about where the money was going.
"I instantly got sick, just knowing that I was lying. I was having to call people to lie," she said.
But what those buying these products may not know is only a small percentage of that donation actually gets to the DARE program.
"On the back of the receipt it clearly says only 5 percent of the donation actually goes to the dare program," Sheriff Terry Wagner, Lancaster County Sheriff's Department.
And the rest ...
"95 percent of what we are able to raise goes back to the fundraising campaign. It offsets the cost of the product that's on the table -- the safety IDs and the fun items. We're able to bring out to kids as well too, these people at the table are paid," David Wierschem, JM Promotion Group event manager.
Company officials say at this point local DARE programs won't see any of that money. Instead, it's sent to the national DARE America.
Wagner said they're not breaking the law, but he wants people to know who's getting their money.
"They provide a service. If people want to contribute, they can. So there's nothing illegal about that -- a little unethical maybe," he said.
The question of ethics, still bothers one former employee.
"The community thinks it's going to a good cause, but it's not. It's really frustrating," she said.
But the company denies the allegations.
"I don't make my reps feel in a position where they are lying or what not. Questions that people ask, like yourself, I give them answers to give them so they don't feel like they're misleading or misrepresenting people," Wierschem said.
After less than a week on the job, the former employee said the experience was a life lesson to always do your homework.
10/11 also spoke to the national DARE program's regional director. He said companies like this one are critical in keeping the DARE program running across the country. He said that five percent doesn't seem like much, but it adds up.
What do you think Crone, I am still playing games? or Did you think I would go away.
We are still only in the first inning.
Former Mayor Thunberg, I want you to pay close attention to this, you see this is what a good mayor does,
Critics of Drug Abuse Resistance Education, the program in which police officers tell kids to just say no, have long been frustrated by DARE's ability to thrive on anecdotes and enthusiasm. Despite the lack of credible evidence that it does what it's supposed to do, it is by far the most widely used antidrug curriculum in the country, reaching more than 20 million students each day.
But DARE's 17-year free ride may be slowing down. Last summer, calling DARE "a fraud on the people of America," Salt Lake City Mayor Ross C. Anderson pulled it out of the city's schools, saying it should be replaced by a program that has actually been shown to reduce drug use. "For far too long," Anderson wrote in The Salt Lake Tribune, "our drug-prevention policies have been driven by mindless adherence to a wasteful, ineffective, feel-good program."
What do you think your job is? Mayor Ross Anderson knows, maybe you should give him a call and he can hold your hand for you, becasue it is painfully obvious that you are asleep at the wheel, and worse, you condon this behaviour from your chief of police.
You need to come out and start talking, or did your private criminal lawyer tell you to shit the hell up?
Are you listening, I bet you are, I bet you are being real quiet after that pack of lies rader told the other day.
You are a joke former mayor Thunberg. You mommy is calling you home for dinner. Better run along now.
To all you cops in Mooresville, this is GOING to happen to you if you took money, I want that list of names that did it and the rest of you are free to go.
A former police officer and two other men are facing theft charges after allegedly soliciting money from businesses for two DARE programs and then keeping the funds, Attorney General Charles Foti said Friday. Business owners in Zachary contacted Foti's office in March after they received calls asking for money for the Zachary and Slaughter DARE programs. The business owners said they suspected the calls were fraudulent.
http://www.alcoholfacts.org/DARE.html
This is a report outlining just how ineffective the DARE program is, you all need to throw it out of your schools and get something that works, it is encourageing YOUR KIDS to use drugs.
I would have posted it, but it is extremely long and to me is something for a later date, but I think you all need to read it if you have kids in that program.
Crone would not tell you this stuff becasue he was ROBBING YOU IN ITS NAME!!!
But enjoy and then go talk to that principle that got that DARE officer fired, I bet he was one of the best cops Mooresville had.
Any program that wastes billions of dollars of taxpayer money and preempts effective drug education programs is by definition counterproductive. This is about much more than wasting money. This is about wasting lives. If DARE were a business, its managers would be prosecuted for fraud. DARE has been taking money for programs that they knew were not working for at least two years. Now they are trying to keep their near-monopoly on school "drug education" programs – testing their new scam in a few schools while continuing to run the old programs that they have acknowledged to be a failure in all the rest. Indeed, they are continuing to try to spread the old program around the world. This is a global fraud.
In my 9:42 post, notice who this is...Attorney General Charles Foti said Friday.
Thatis Attorney General folks, this is a former cop, he was not even a cop anymore when he did this and the attorney general is all over it.
So to cooper, it appears you too are asleep at the wheel, and your DA Gary Frank is nothing less then incompetent like I said.
You should have known everything that goes on in your police departments or at least had someone who did....oh wait a minute...you did have someone who did, his name is GARY FRANK!
GARY FRANK, you bare the total blame here for not knowing what these people were doing... but its ok, I know you had to deal with these men everyday, which is why I know why you did not charge them, its because you are one of the Good Ole Boys. Hate it for you.
I want your license Frank, Crones badge is gone and your out too, you are making the Attorney General look so bad I cant even imagine what he is thinking right now.
And to you, the flunky at the Attoney Generals Office that is reading this....Get up out of that taxpayer paid chair you are sitting in and walk on over to Cooper's office and tell him I said this. WAKE THE "F" UP!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE A JOB TO DO.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programing, RADER CSI
This week, they case of the Hot Dog Cooker and the Con Man
I must apologize Mr. Cooper, you are not asleep, you are busy with this deal over a couple hundred thousand dollars and a couple hundered customers.
Dont worry, there are only several thousands of victims in Mooresville, residence and business alike.
But now that you are done with this huge case, do you think you might grace the presence of the folks over in Mooresville? They were only robbed of hundreds and hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. They might need a little help too. Ya think
My suggestion is that everyone in mooresville start ringing that phone off the damn hook right now, that would get his attention.
Start calling folks, he does work for you after all.
Raleigh, NC -- North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper won a settlement with StoresOnline, Inc. and iMergent, Inc.
The two online companies failed to help people set up successful online businesses like they said they would.
Now the companies say they will change their ways and pay customers who were affected full refunds.
If you used either company and want to apply for a refund, call Cooper's Consumer Protection Division at 1-877-5-NO-SCAM to request an application. The deadline is October 6.
Customers who qualify must have purchased the companies' services before August 7, 2008. They must say in their refund application that they were unable to use the companies' software to set up a fully operational web site. They should also add that they contacted customer service at least once but were still unable to get the web site to operate properly.
At this point, Cooper's office received more than $265,000 in refunds for North Carolina consumers in connection with the case.
I want all readers to think about all of this that has occurred in Mooresville over the past few months (and years):
1)The recommendations by Smith to appropriate the 20K + for Cops for Kids,
2) the firing of the DARE officer for trumped up reasons to mask a personal vendetta
3)Cops for Kids fraud by Crone
4)Evidence questions at the MPD
5)The conduct of Mr. Smith in supporting/protecting the police chief and not protecting the taxpayers
6)The farce of the town hiring its own investigator and calling it "objective"
7)The actions of a town commissioner speaking to a police department under investigation.
8)The inaction of the Board of Commissioners regarding the players in this Cops for Kids episode(Crone and Smith)
9)The absolute silence of elected officials regarding the Chief of Police and acting town manager
Did I leave anything out?
In two(2) days we will swear in a new Town Manager and Mr. Smith will revert back to Assist. Town Manager, and the powers that be are planning that all will be forgotten with time. I have to say, with all the "questionable acts" committed, I am rather upset, but the Town Board thinking that they can play this out and wait for this to die down without action pisses me off! I hope it pisses readers off as well, because these people in essence are giving the taxpayers the middle finger. But I have a few words of encouragement for the readers, character/determination is the product of adversity, which the "Board" will see if they continue to do business as usual. I do not intend to "go silently about my way" when there are "seven" ELECTED PUBLIC OFFICIALS who think they can do what the hell they want. I encourage all readers who believe in Honest and Open Government to remember, Rome wasn't built in a day, it took some time. I also want the "Board" to know, sure election time is coming, but your personal reputations are damaged with each passing day. I know each commissioner may not care if people think they are honest or not, but I know I wouldn't want to walk down Main Street and have people think I'm a crook. I prefer to be known as "a trouble maker" that stands up for honest, open, and trusted government. So go ahead and sit on your hands commissioners, because it just contributes more to our new reputation of being the most "corrupt" little town in North Carolina. Thanks alot guys.
"I just found out yesterday, that in some twisted world, the DARE program has been used in conjunction with the COPS for KIDS Program at the Golf Tourny."
===========
The banner proclaiming the golf tourney that was outside the PD for weeks before the event had DARE on it. At least, to the best of my very good recollection, it did. I saw it every day as I drove up or down Iredell/Hwy 3.
Well said, 12:02. The commissioners can wipe the mud off of their collective face by getting rid of Smith or they can keep their cart hitched to his horse and take the consequences. And they have approximately 48 hours in which to do it. They have an opportunity.
It is in the paper too, that is where I found it, I am not in, nor have I have been to Moorsville in order to see that banner, and I dont believe anyone ever linked the two before for me to know what happen with more clarity.
But I know much more now
Tic Toc
Prince Rader? I think Little Lord Faltneroy is more like it. The only royal thing about him is his Earl Grey tea.
Yes, the banner read DARE/Cops for Kids Golf Tournament. When Crone fired Burleyson he stated that the DARE program did not work and he was thinking of removing it from the schools. A week later he announced a new DARE officer and then sent her to LAS VEGAS for two weeks to train. I bet there are a lot of people that would like a two week "training session" in Las Vegas.
Under every rock in this town there's a mess. Who's in charge around here?
If the DARE program did not work it is because the DARE Program does not work, my guess right now, and this is only a guess, is that Burlyson, (I can never remember this guys name, may have asked about the money raised and questioned crone about it becasue he wanted more of the money raised to go towards what it was intended to go to, crone balked at that because after all, the money in that account was HIS for his vacations. Crone just waited for the bunny caper to happen and used that to fire the guy.
I wont say anything about the new DARE officer, as I am sure she is going to do the best she can with what she has been given, but the old DARE officer, should be talking to lawyers already, I believe and as I say it is a guess right now, that the above is accurate or very close to the reality of what happened.
I am going to try to prove it, from what I read about him, he was a well loved cop who only wanted to do what was right. Again, I dont know, I am just going off what I know of him.
Crone could get the backing of Smith Rader and Thunburg to ruin that mans life if they wanted by calling the chief of police where ever the guy went to and telling them not to hire him, its just an extension of the good ole boy network.
And trust me, your town is not even close to the worst in North Carolina, I know this from personal experience.
I am so sick of this crap, it has to stop, you people cant give up on this after your town is clear, you are going to have to help the next town.
Mr Hussman, and his new blood will help, but there will always be more tyrants, it is the nature of the beast of law enforcement and politicians.
If DARE was listed first on that banner then DARE was the intended recipient of ALL that money, COPS 4 Kids had little if any claim to any of that money, they were riding the coat tails of dare, nothing more, and who ever handled the dare money normally, (meaning what account did the towns contribution go into, thats the account that all that money should have gone into initially, CFK would have then been needed to be issued a check to what ever ammount they had comming , for lending their name to it, not the other way around, Burllyson should have collected ALL that money and put it in the dare account, not Crones personal slush fund account.
This is ALL BACK ASSWARDS.
Who believes Rader when he himhawed when he was asked if he's had contact with Crone lately? After a bunch of stuttering he said he hasn't had any contact with him since what July 4? Yeah riiiiight. I believe that just like I believe all his other lies that he got caught in on candid camera. I'll bet my last dollar he coordinated his little visits at the MPD with his little friend John Crone thinking nobody would be the wiser. Rader is a whole lot more stupid than he thinks.
Someone please tell me more about this golf tournament (and the DARE involvement in it,(who, what,when,where, why and how)) or tell me where I can find out more about it, Someone show me the contract from DARE national, there is one somewhere.
I assume crone was not smart enough to have contracts for his fake crap. So I need to see the full text of that contract and I can tell you exactly what crones intent of putting DARE first on that bannerwas , see unlike 14-100 which does not care what his intent was, The area I am about to go into DOES.
Contract Law, the finer things in life, ya got to love them.
Does anyone know how I can see it?
Oh man, dare is gonna love this
In case your still wondering where I am going with this, I think I can get, DARE National to have him arrested on 14-100 LOL
But I need to see that contract.
I think he is going to have stolen all that money from national.
They cant sweep that under the rug now can they. hmmm
That is a huge mistake if they did what I think they did.
This will be great and keeping with John Crones Style of steal from everyone, I think he will have stolen all that money from the people and businesses Very much of it cash), and then the group as well,
Someone in town should have pictures of the banner and I'm sure you could place a few officers under oath at the MPD to have them attest to seeing it. I also believe anyone who saw the banner can swear an affidavit to the fact for the national folks. The least that could be done is make the national office aware. I am pretty sure that DARE would be considered under the supervision of Crone as Chief, so we now have DARE fraud association with CFK. But I think the investigation by SBI may cover that, but we need FBI, but most of all, Mr. Smith and Mr. Rader need to go.
To the 08-30-2008 poster - like to see the sheriff's office officals answers question brought up on the Crone Terminated Blog, I agree I chuckle imagining them even standing in front of a group to answer questions much less speak with any knowledge and conviction about wrong doing.
I looked back at the Blog just to see the (you don't know what you are talking about comments or dissheveled employee tags) Wow all those have to shut up now ! What was in the paper this week? Ohh yea, there was a Captain according to Statesville Record and Landmark 8-29-08 edition quoting Phil Redmond "we had an employee come and confess he had a fradulent degree from phiffer so he could get a 5% anual raise. He only got this increased pay for 2 years. It totaled $8,000. He made arrangements to pay it back, so we let him retire" and draw his pension. Oh by the way for some reason the Feds showed up shortly after. (Facts were: the Feds showed up an ordered Redmond into his own office at 4:00 in the afternoon- you ever tried to find him in his office before 9 or after 2? The Captain was then called in. Then he confessed. Then he was allowed to retire. Then he used his accrued vacation pay to pay the stolen money back. At least Mooresville was smart enough to Fire Crone not let him retire)I don't know why the press did not disclose this then. I did nothing wrong and our agency has fixed it so we don't have another theft again ...I guess Redmond denies knowledge of that posted memo saying employees would be terminated if it was discussed.. What hog wash .. first of all simple math shows this employee would have had to be making as much as redmond was in 2005 and 2006 to have stole $8,000 in a 5% raise for only 2 years. The deal is the employee stole the increased salary money for 3 1/2 years.. Why would Redmond not tell the truth? Ohh yea it sounds better to just say two years. Redmond did say the Captain had a conviction for stealing while employed with the highway patrol. But another sheriff hired him not me- That is funny redmond. That Sheriff did not promote him to Lt. then demote him for what? (we can't discuss that you will be fired) Then within 6 months get promoted back to Lt. because he now learned to be a team player. then 6 months later to captain ...with no checks and balances in place to keep him in check. Well the poster was apparently right about that one.
Wonder when it will be news about the other deputy stealing that was posted? How will Redmond dance and disaasociate from that one when it does? (Redmond is already on record saying *this theft* Redmond actually said a mistake that did not invlove a criminal case was discovered). What about the victims of this deputy cases? Did Redmond call them and explain why the DA's office refused to prosecute this deputy's cases? OOpps how did that get out? Maybe the DA that Redmond wanted to win was supposed to do that as well as not prosecute the deputy.
Lets not forget the letters to the Statesville Record and Landmark thanking him for such a fine job after that Blog .. two are very close supporters of Redmond. I so got a kick out of the one that talked about redmond being a compassionate man and doing the right thing and firing that bad deputy who was speeding. That is such a crock. Redmond did nothing but what any simpleton with common sense would have done. You have no alternative but to fire a deputy running more than 2 times the speed limit epescially without any emergency equipment on. If he was so compassionate about crash victims when the dputy was/is wrong - why did he not resign when he drove his county owned crown vic into the rearend of a family and then the good sheriff left the scene and did not even take time to call the police or highway patrol and report he had beeen in a wreck. That was in 1996 or 1998. The high Sheriff don't have to follow the same laws as you and I. He felt remorse after 12 years of not sleeping good knowing he did wrong so he had to make this one right .. I think the difference is the media found out and reported this crash ....
Speaking of D.A.R.E. why has redmond canceled it and the DARE Camps that most all of his upper echlon's kids got to go to including his own? Money plain and simple...Apparently some people in Mooresville actually want to know how this donated money to law enforcement agencies and their programs is being spent. Also making deputies teach a new program in the middle school comes out of the Schools budget not Redmonds sheriff budget as the DARE officers did .. But what happened to that money that the companies raised for DARE this year? OHH well just go to the FAIR .. Redmond will give you trinkets with his name on them that money paid for .. Then you can teach your own Kids how to avoid drugs and peer pressure until they get to the 7th grade.
Get some more press Redmond ... It is hilarious how after that blog you have mastered your way into the paper so much in a short time ..
September 1, 2008 1:21 AM poster...
Here is the philosophy behind all the press releases, handshaking and baby-kissing:
"It's not what you do, it's what people THINK you do".
1:21 sounds like you have been around, have you ever heard a certain someone say that?
I live in Mooresville and haven't had much dealings with the county Sheriff or his officers. I also believe "injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere." I know Mooresville is not the only community that needs cleaning up. To other communities who are watching us, I say this. Watch what people have done here, how patient they have had to be, how persistent they have had to be, how tough they have had to be. Go to the earlier posts where the creator of this blog and her readers were being verbally abused, how community activists have been threatened and harassed. They did not stop, and they are not stopping now. They deal with one "problem" at a time. They are clearly trustworthy because they are getting the "tips" and sinking the right ships instead of the tipsters. Fighting corruption is hard work. That's why it's called "fighting". The corrupt become comfortable and very difficult to dislodge. They use public resources to create a support network around themselves, erecting a fake "army" of defenders to whom they throw political bones from the carcass of the taxpayer. If you want to change your community, you will have to fight, you will have to fight smart, and you will have to fight hard.
Tic Toc I'm afraid you better go see the Doc. "A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception. In psychiatry, the definition is necessarily more precise and implies that the belief is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). As a pathology it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information or certain effects of perception which would more properly be termed an apperception or illusion.
Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders and particularly in schizophrenia and mania in episodes of bipolar disorder."
1:21
Let me get this straight, Redmond used money raised for DARE to by trinkets with his name on them?
If that is true, it is a violation of 14-100 Obtaining Property by False Prestenses
The money was raised for the drug program, using it for ANYTHING else is a violation and he will be guilty.
So I need to know, is that true?
If it is, the good sheriff is getting arrested.
Did you just shed light on fraud in the Sheriff's department, you have my full and undivided attention right now.
Tic Tic
Thanks for the advice, now can I get fries with that, I have to get back to work.
Tic Toc
BTW, you better go back and reread everything I wrote again but this time try to understand it, it might be a bit advanced for you, because you missed twice where I said, this is a guess and I am going to try and prove it, but I think I am right, and you showing up, makes me think I am more right. If I am wrong then later I will admit that, but as I said, show me that contract and lets find out.
Psychiatry - That is a good one! LOL
Might want to use that one on these five men, Crone Smith, Rader, Thunberg and Frank, they are going to become increasingly unglued in a short time, might be fun to watch. Maybe I will buy you some popcorn and sit you in a high chair so you can see it unfold.
It seems when you did your copy and paste from the Wiki, you forgot to include the next couple paragraphs, I think they might be important, dont you?
Did you even graduate Junior High?
Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:
* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)
These criteria still continue in modern psychiatric diagnosis. In the most recent Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a delusion is defined as:
A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture (e.g., it is not an article of religious faith).
There is some controversy over this definition, as 'despite what almost everybody else believes' implies that a person who believes something most others do not is a candidate for delusional thought.
Tic Toc
Go look at the wiki, I guess "context" is not a word you are familiar with
Show me any counter argument in your statement?
Tic Toc...
I've been watching these posts. The Sheriff using DARE proceeds to buy junk with his name on it is probably legal.
When you see a bubblegum machine that say's "Give To Muscular Dystrophy", very little of that money actually goes to MS. It used to be that you were only required to give 1% to MS to use their charitable name. DARE is probably the same way. Especially since the stuff Redmond is buying promotes DARE and substance abuse along with his name. That is my understanding anyway.
I hate to see him benefit and further himself on public funds as well. However, there is PLENTY of information to shed light on Redmond without making issue of that which is legal. Check it out before wasting time.
You now, our former chief of police had a habit of calling his detractors delusional. I guess all of us delusional people have somehow magically caused the rest of the world to buy into the delusion. Maybe you should check into the clinical definition of denial, then follow that up with the definitions of malfeasance, corruption, and pathological liar.
Then, maybe you could take some time to analyze the contradictory statements of the man once known as Chief & the man once known as the numbers man. And while you're at it, then take some time to investigate the history of the man once known as assistant town manager.
Or, you could choose another option and contribute to the discussion by providing some sort of verifiable evidence which contradicts the consistent stance of most of the folks on this blog.
If he has the DARE on it then your correct, he is good, if it did not have DARE on it he is screwed. He would have used DARE money for political gain and 14-100 would apply, but thanks for the info, I guess he gets a pass. :-) Finally, someone gets a pass LOL
By the way, I have seen charities run in the negative at -104% of collected funds, that is perfectly legal,(even though it should not be)But my point is that when it cost 95 dollars to raise 5, as it does with DARE, do you really want to give that 100 bucks to them.
Believe me, I know where that fine line is between illegal and legal, and from this point forward, if I see it crossed, anywhere, those people are going to jail until I have made MY point and the violation of the 14th Amendment is cured. Lets not forget, that is what I am doing here in the first place.
But as I say, thanks for the info, but I still bet there is some fraud there, it is almost impossible not to have it in ever similar charity, because the charity is not being run by an expert on how to raise money. It only takes spending the money wrong once for me to get them and they will all eventually do that, at least in my experience anyway.
Oh, one other thing, I forgot about the bubblegum machine, it does not lie to people to get them to buy a piece of gum as a Police Fundraiser NEEDS to do.
Sorry, I really do appreciate your comment though, I don't mean to come across as jumping on you, I'm just clarifying is all
You know what, I take that back, he should not be putting HIS name on those items he buys with dare money, even with the dare logo on it, that is a benefit to him politically and the people that donated that money may not support him, let alone the implication that DARE National does. It creates an unfair advantage at election time. So I am sorry to have to tell you this, but that is still a violation, if he wants to put the departments name and dare logo on something, that is fine.
Now someone better go tell him to knock it off before I look more closely at him and his program. He is currently violating 14-100 and will be found guilty.
Tell him I said, he better stop handing that shit out too.
Sorry, but I will decide where my time is most useful and right now it is most useful in making him stop the violation 14-100
He has obtained that property under false pretenses because his pitch to get the money donated did not say he would use it for political gain.
Print something else with your name on it and the DARE logo, Redmond, its illegal! Period.
I am already starting to get a bad taste in my mouth about you.
That is, unless the dare contract specifically says that he is allowed to join their names together, (which I doubt, more likely then not it spells out that he can not do that, DARE National is not going to blindly support every cop on the street with out knowing exactly what they are lending their name too) then it is a crime. A felony. Class H and last I checked, you cant be sheriff with a felony on your record, holding that pistol is problematic for him keeping his job. Its to bad he does not understand that law, or he would have already known that and would not have done it in the first place.
Are you listening SBI, here is your next fish, served up to you over a pen, I expect you to investigate Redmond, and I am sure you will find what I say.
See ya Redmond, your toast as well. You know, the link between you and Crone is a small one, one step as a matter of fact between the Chief of police of a town and the Sheriff of the county that town is in. You could say it was symbiotic (look it up). You might just be the sixth name on my list of crooked people stealing. I believe we are going to find you in the heap as well. Because if you are willing to fudge that money just a little, then you will fudge it a lot.
Right now I just want you to clean it up and stop doing it, I wont be so nice in the future if you don't. Not sure what the SBI is going to do now that they know though.
Heads of police departments committing crimes, who would have thunk it.
How much further do I need to go down these roads before Crone and Company are arrested?
He may be violating election laws as well, his election campaign needs to be paying for that crap he is putting his name on, he is creating a disadvantage financially for his opponents.
The playing field must be level and right now it is not.
Redmond, you need to get your election campaign to cut a check to the dare program for every single item you bought with dare money that has your name on them, then you need to throw all that crap out because there in no way DARE is supporting your campaign over that or your opponents. They dont even any of you let alone what you stand for.
What the hell does your election have to do with kids and drugs which is what that money was raised from the public for?
Better get you butt on TV and start explaining this, and I mean quick, like this week. Or you dingy is getting shoved off my ship as the number 2 thief.
Folks, I did not cause this either, I am only connected the dots for you people, do not attack me, other posters gave up the info, I just put it in the proper context.
Or are you, Mr. Redmond trying to imply that these folks here all support you over your opponents? Last I check, none of them will support none of you over another one of you.
D.A.R.E. America is funded largely as a crime prevention program working through education within schools. It receives funding from the U.S. Department of Justice, U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Department of State, U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Bureau of Justice Administration, U.S. Office of Justice and Delinquency Prevention, corporations, foundations, individuals and other sources. [12] In addition, state training and local programs typically receive funding from state legislature appropriations, state agencies, counties, cities, school districts, police agencies, individuals, and community fund raisers and other sources.
Did you call any of these people and ask them if they support you? Did you mention it during the pitch that you made for DARE funds. No and No, I don't think you did, you are stealing money from DARE and using it to promote yourself for re-election, but I got news for you, you are not going to be re elected to anything if you don't fix this quick.
I want you to release to Jaime all of your DARE financial documentation, contracts, bank statements, receipts and so forth so we can see just what you have done as well.
If even one penny of that money was spent on anything other then DARE related materials in the fight to keep kids off drugs, then you are a felon, (ie, promotional products with your name on them and the DARE logo) which if what was put up here earlier by a couple other people, it would appear from the outside that you are guilty already.
You are the Sherriff, please tell me what you were thinking stealing from DARE, again, your intent here was to promote yourself by placing your name along with the dare logo on promotional materials.
The only reason you need to promote yourself is to get reelected, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the DARE program and these kids that that money was raised for.
If you have not paid DARE back for those promotional materials by the end of this week and found some way to tell me you did it, ie. apologize on TV for it, then I will come full bore right straight at you. I know what you are doing, the rest of these people may not, but I do, and I am the one you need to concern yourself with right now.
You can not steal from kids while I am sitting right here and get away with it, I will call you on it every single time. You need to just hope more people dont tell me more about you.
Mr. Redmond, do what I say, or you will join crone, out of a job, and on your way to prison, I am trying to help you get out of the pile of crap you have found yourself in this morning. Do the right thing by the end of the week, get you butt on TV or get a lawyer, either one still may not help you.
Does anyone here still think I am playing a game?
I got a little more bad news for you too, Mr. Redmond, your contributions to your reelection campaign are NOT, let me repeat that, NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE as you are not a 501 C#3 However, the contributions to the D.A.R.E. program ARE let me repeat, ARE deductible. So you are taking money from people that are going to claim a deduction that they are not allowed to take, and since that money was raised for DARE and not you, you are committing many, many violations of 14-100.
You better get a law book out so you know that you are as screwedas crone as of right now.
I know it has been along time since you actually had to think about the law, but I would say now is the time.
The IRS is going to need to have a word with you too, and well as the Election commission as well as the state tax authority, as well as the Secretary of State office of charitable solicitation.
But wait theres more.....
fix this so I can get back to what I am focusing on, you are nothing more then a dumb ass bump in the road who would appear to not know how to keep finances separate. But you are still guilty.
WHO IS NEXT???
...tic toc, and / or whoever is wasting our time with the nonsense, please stop. If the county has an issue, go after it, the title of this thread is "Rader faces questions for his role in police chief investigation"....
Rader did not face anything, I'll stop when I am done, But I am for the most part done now at least till I see what the Sheriff does this week, but thank you for your support, please make your check out to the DARE program for 100.00 dollars
Why is the continuation of the corruption to the county such a surprise to you?
Or do you think your duty stops at the waters edge of Mooresville, and screw the people in the county, after all, they are not Moorsvillians, right.
Wrong, that is the absolutely most ass backwards thing I thought I would ever hear on this board.
When would you rather I attack the sheriff? Six months from now after he has stolen more money or right now to stop him from continuing to steal it in the first place as fast as possible. You all elected this idiots, not me.
I submit to you that you do not no what is important and what is not, with what is going on here. SO until you get up to speed, sit back and watch, but what ever you do, don't tell me I am "wasting your time" because people like you helped to cause this and YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME, I did not cause this and I am working on it on labor day just like any other day to try to help your town out of a jam. I bet you have the grill going and a beer in your hand right now, while I sit here and type out the truth.
I would much prefer you just said thank you, and when on about your way.
You are failing to see the big picture, or any picture outside that of one of Mooresville, but it is all connected, so if I am wasting your time, and you are offended, oh well, I cant please all the people all the time, but I bet there are some sheriffs jumping up and down with delight all across Iredell County. Right now.
Anything else you care to say to me?
Because I really need to get back to work wasting your time.
While I appreciate your comments today, I disagree with you, I hope you will allow me that anyway.
Ok, I am done folks, back to Rader if you care to, the information I wanted out there is now out there for all to see and you can decide on it for yourself.
Lets see what happens with the Sheriff. I bet he will be relearning math over the next couple days and writing checks.
The word for Monday is...
eviscerate
Have a nice day!
What exactly is boarder mail? Is that an address in prison?
3:01, 3:31, 4:08, 4:09, 4:15, yadda, yadda, blah, blah...
Yes, you can't bitch about your neighbors grass if yours is full of grab grass and 6" high....
Oh, and wouldn't try outting me, been after Crone, Rader and Thunberg personally, directly, and not anonymously for months now...
So, knock it off, yes, today my jurisdiction ends here.... until my house is clean I am not prepared to challenge my neighbors.
Let's work on our commish at large, and mayor right now...
DARE - does work when the 1 on 1 relationships that are built, as Officer. B did, creates them at school and he is around to set an example and be an honest and “trusted” source. Kids respond, trust and respect that, and it goes way beyond drugs.
That is the effective use of the program; and to most kids and more importantly, the marginal kids, it indeed does work, and since it’s a kid by kid program, as good as we have. Think you can do better, then go for it, good for UTAH, so what has the result of the ban and new program been? Anyone here really think any parent would resist a better program?
Yes kids and adults know the national program and message is mostly fluff, and like all 501Cs very little of the fund raising gets back to who can use it, that is not the fund raisers fault, its our cynical publics’.
If folks cared we wouldn't need $$$$ spin doctors to get a measly $100 buck check out of the average joe.
You have a point 4:44, as I said, the info I want out there is out there, so please feel free to discuss whatever you like, but I promise I am not wasting your time.
Oh, and I don't worry, I am focused on what I have to do, nothing else, outing people is a little out of my area.
SO if I jumped incorrectly, I apologize.
And to the next poster, I am only spreading the facts as I know them to be, but it is not about DARE so much as it is about stealing from DARE, unfortunately sometimes you have to take the long way around to make a point. I think my point was made.
BTW, I agree with you 4:54, 100%, although I disagree with DARE on principal and curriculum, I agree that Officer B probably worked it the way it is designed to the best of his ability. I believe he should be rehired and placed back in the DARE program and in the same place he was before Crone, screwed him over. And I believe that should be done for the kids, not for the dare program itself.
As I say, it is about stealing from the program, not the program itself, but sometimes a shock to the system is what is needed. And I would say I did that and I did it with their own words.
And to the other guy, YES, you hit the nail right on the head, boardermail is a prison email address. I knew I could not keep that from you for long LOL
prison email addresses ARE a dime a dozen these days.
By now everyone knows that frank rader is a liar and that nothing he says can be believed, so why would anyone believe he has not talked to his friend since the 4th of July,
Do any of these people have lawyers, I bet Thunberg does and he told him to be quiet because this was getting out of hand.
And next, why would anyone go to a second TOM discourse, for what, to hear more lies?
His Rader at large email publication should also stop, he is wasting tax payer money and only sending out lies.
Of course every word he utters is ammunition against him, so maybe I am wrong.
Tic Toc... pleae calm down. Address an issue and then rest until something new comes up. There are alot of frustrated people on this board and all input is good. Your posts are interesting to read, just maybe try breathing into a paper bag once in awhile. The threats aren't neccasary either. If your information is good, that is enough to get things going.
As for those upset that something besides Radar is being discussed here; What started the comments on the Sheriffs office is the fact that this blog has been devoted to addressing corruption in government. The Crone / Smith / Erskine thing is well underway. Jamie has done a great job. I don't see this whole investigation being swept under the rug now. The firing of Crone by his buddies tells me that this whole thing is exposed enough and deep enough to run it's course.
The Radar faces questions thing was priceless. Ya'll have done a fine job of dragging many facts into the light.
Those of us who have had our fill of watching things in the county go unaddressed are maybe getting a little jealous and needing Jamie's talents as well.
I find it inexcusable that you would be so self centered as to childishly request that anyone wanting to address corruption other than your own, need to go play somewhere else.
Jamie has started a great thing here, let it grow.
I really want to address your post in detail, however, your post was well thought out, but inexcusable? Self Centered? It is me that is being violated by the failure of the DA to act, no one in mooresville. If I come off as self centered that is becasue I absolutley am, this case is going to center around me in the future, thats the part that none of you get and I can not elaborate on right now, but please bare with me.
I said what I had to say already about Redmond and Dare, and lets see where that goes, he is guilty of diverting money so my threats are not threats at all, they are promises.
I am sorry you dont see it that way, but that is the way it is and the cruption does not stop at the waters edge with these people, you cant leave one of them there or it will spread like a cancer again.
Or maybe I am wrong about everything.
Which do you think it is?
But I respect your comments and will tone it down for a few days. My point with Redmond has been made.
We (I) are (am) the same poster; your point, while perhaps accurate, is inconsequential in this discussion.
In addition, your point was so overdriven that it becomes a nuisance, not a rally point.
Once you drop your bomb publically you are done, better to have a dialogue privately with those involved. Then when an impasse is reached or it becomes obvious they are dishonest, publish it and your "commentary" and then shut up, let it roll as it may, if it doesn’t that does not mean it is not valid, just not on the agenda…. It’s an election year and no one is talking about how screwed the no child left behind act has jacked with schools, we have war, housing, jobs and all kinds of other crap…does that mean kids are any less relevant, no….
So perhaps opening private lines of communication with others who feel as you do would serve you better, but please allow us to focus on the issues at hand.
While I applaud you, again, your constitutional research (I too loved that subject and took far too many hours in it at VA) you are distracting the masses from the point, they have at most one or two posts to determine the sincerity of the issues, call to action and if they want to engage.
Should they, heck would you, read a few posts and see that - one this is not about Mooresville, two, not about meeting and Rader, three somewhat rarified for most and four...well a tad obsessive…maybe weirdly so....
Anyway, I for one continue to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are the guy in front Focus that energy on more relevant, local research, or establishing external relationships that can be brought to bear here on the site to support the common and current objective.
I am not in a position to establish more external lines of communications, in other words I cant just call these people up, but you point is well taken.
I only have one other thing to say, this is the subtitle of this blog
{Covering the Political Landscape for the People of Mooresville & Southern Iredell County}
Or am I reading that wrong?
Point taken, but I do not call either.... I search and find email (or bang away at group and public addressed until I get a “bite) that other than for Frank who apparently, written correspondence seems to fail short, the rest of us still find the most effective and accountable means of "discourse" is written.
Patience tic toc, while it’s rare, it happens, and when it does seem to be happening, justice and vengeance comes slowly and via means completely unexpected.... and that's not just 7 years of GI Bill money talking...well maybe, but if you do have an unlimited opportunity to go to college and study anything and everything that every interested you.... wouldn't you?
Tic Toc:
As I said, calm down. Part of the post you responded to;
"I find it inexcusable that you would be so self centered as to childishly request that anyone wanting to address corruption other than your own, need to go play somewhere else."
...This wasn't adressed to you. The only thoughts I directed to you was the first paragraph.
The section of my post you are referring to started with:
"As for those upset that something besides Radar is being discussed here;
That was to those people that complained that nothing but Radar corruption should be discussed here.
As for the comment that you are being violated by the DA's failure to act, we are all left on the doorstep because of the DA's failure to act. That is why I got annoyed at the people complaining that only Radar agenda should be addressed here.
It all falls under the same DA and the more irregularites that are brought to light the better. If those irregularities are more widespread than just the city of Mooresville, does that not benefit all of our causes that much more?
G. Frank's failure to act on so much information in Mooresville or the County makes him an integeral part of the corruption.
Are you going to call me grasshopper LOL
Yes, but none as much as mine, I could easily take the easy road right now and hope they never charge him, that solves my problem as well, but I choose the hard road to make sure it does not happen to anyone else.
BTW, I do study anything and everything that interests me, right now, this interests me in a very personal way. Anyway, how else would I know so much useless information, well, useless in any other setting except for here.
And I have been doing that for many many years. This is the confluence of my useless information and corruption in Mooresvilles government coming together for the benefit of myself and the people. I really wish I could come forward but I prefer to stay alive right now, but I will be there soon, don't worry.
BTW, I am on a time frame here and it should be obvious that it is not the same time frame as the atty. Generals. I need those time frames to meet as fast as possible.
... ha! and not meant as demeaning....but just a good reply and one of those moments where reality and humor may meet, - I realize that the circumstances are or may not be the same for you…after oceanography, astronomy, geography, archeology, art history, and at least a half dozen other osophies, not to mention more than a few nights under a bridge between jobs, checks, school…yeah I too had time to run down a lot of interests.
funny thing, after 7 years and over 140 hours, no degree, wasted opp….
It took something else to drive me to a final 42 hours in 2 semesters (while working full time) to finish it. What will it take for you, sooner or later, you and only you have to close the deal or let it go… I doubt seriously that putting two people in jail is your life’s calling…all of it.
But if so, fair enough, but like all those undergrad and grad profs I had who seemed to just not get the clock the rest of us lived by, well your timetables may need to be leveraged differently
I hope it works for you, and I do empathize why you are not only jumping on, but hi-jacking threads...
if you truly have something, call dale, megan or jamie (and I take liberty with the familiar use of their names).... I do not know nor have corresponded with jamie, but I have with the other two, and they have published every single "letter to the editor” I have sent and some.
….and while here I prefer to work with and behind others too...when direct I do use my name.... and others on this thread can “testify” to that
if you truly have something, call dale, megan or jamie.... i do not know nor have cooresponded with jamie, but i have with the other two, and they have published every single "letter to the editor: i have sent, and no, not many, i prefere to work with and behind others too...but when direct I do use my name....
freaky and sorry, not sure why, (ok yes something I am doing, but laptops can't argue back, so...) but my copy and paste is duplicating some parts of my drafts.
i do aplogize....
I doubt seriously that putting two people in jail is your life’s calling…all of it.
Right now, yes, it is, and it is not two, the count is up to six and those are the only ones I have talked about, but my life has been about nothing but this moment for the past few years, and will remain so until death or vindication. Sorry, but I cant tell you why, but trust me, I am righteous in my attempt, no matter what anyone thinks.
But it is not about me, I just have nothing further for Rader, he showed what he is to me, and I feel dirtier for having seen it.
Sorry, when I said, everything and anything, I should have said, anything and everything in regards to the Law, both state and federal.
I only have a passing knowledge of the other areas you refer to, I study the law and not much else and I do it for a purpose and have done it for years. I had to, it was part of my job, to know the frauds so my company did not cross that line, consequently, I know the law in relation to police fundraiser's intimately and fully expect to see the inside of the Supreme Court on my own if this problem is not solved, meaning the violation of the 14th.
I wont respond anymore but please continue your discussion. I am all ears
... a crude but effective analogy, and a killer movie, capone was brought down on the new, literally, spanking, new income tax laws, so yes good to study the law, but took someone with a "out of the box" or "sideways" perspective to nail him.
don't let your cause blind you to your options and/or allies.
by the by, and I am sure many will regret this, but I'll engage to a degree and as I have time, and if you are serious and have argued and studied briefs and judgments...
ok, the 14th, so what about citizenship does this have to do with....
are you saying you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, you've been denied an elected seat to the congress, or have you, as so many feel they have been… deprived of due process.
and if due process, why if a crummy lawyer, well that is the process, right or wrong, good or bad, anyone who can’t afford otherwise is subject to same, therefore making it due process...what is your case law showing otherwise
don’t reply to the last paragraph, unless we set up hotmail accounts to write and debate….lets keep this thread to the constitution….
…while i cant help you, i will be happy to debate and provide a devils advocate to you within reason, perhaps it can a new perspective to address and overcome....
Tell me why you think the 14th is about citizenship?
sorry only about citizenship?
I am cooking right now, but I will do this if you like,
Lookup Wayte V United States
and get back to me I need to eat.
that was argued on 1st and 5th primarily....
have you read the 14th, its short, 5 sections, not as fun, eloquant and confusing as the 2nd....
a summary of the 14th- protects rights against state infringements, defines citizenship, prohibits states from interfering with privileges and immunities, requires due process and equal protection, punishes states for denying vote, and disqualifies Confederate officials and debts
I think you are going to need to do some homework, but I don't trust anyone who shows up on a day that I lay out the Sheriff and offers me to help me, first I don't need help, second, I don't need to talk about anything in private that I can not talk about on here, and third, I don't trust anyone who shows up on a day I lay our the Sheriff, but I will give you the same as I gave frank and when you have studied it, get back to me, until then.... well, it sounds like some sort of a setup to me, no offense, but you can thank the NC legal system for me being jaded about anyone who says they want to help.
The only allies I have are in prison and no one else seems to have a proper appreciation for the seriousness of my words.
I am going back to my diner.
Here it is in living color, which I posted a while back, so I am guessing you just got here and are playing with fire because you are board
I wont be talking to anyone else on this board, my text will do my talking,
Now I have to go, good luck to Crone, Smith Rader, Thunberg, Frank and now Redmond.
You asked the wrong question right from the start. Sorry, I am sure you are good at what you do, and maybe when you show me a law license we can talk again, but till then, enjoy.
I think you are going to need to do some homework, but I don't trust anyone who shows up on a day that I lay out the Sheriff and offers me to help me, first I don't need help, second, I don't need to talk about anything in private that I can not talk about on here, and third, I don't trust anyone who shows up on a day I lay our the Sheriff, but I will give you the same as I gave frank and when you have studied it, get back to me, until then.... well, it sounds like some sort of a setup to me, no offense, but you can thank the NC legal system for me being jaded about anyone who says they want to help.
The only allies I have are in prison and no one else seems to have a proper appreciation for the seriousness of my words.
I am going back to my diner.
Here it is in living color, which I posted a while back, so I am guessing you just got here and are playing with fire because you are board
I wont be talking to anyone else on this board, my text will do my talking,
Now I have to go, good luck to Crone, Smith Rader, Thunberg, Frank and now Redmond.
You asked the wrong question right from the start.
If I am wrong I am sorry. But I am protective of me.
In Wayte v. United States, the Supreme Court held that to demonstrate
selective prosecution a defendant must show that he received
disparate treatment and that his prosecution was improperly
motivated. Disparate treatment arises if others similarly situated
are not prosecuted; improper purpose exists when selection is
"deliberately based upon an unjustifiable standard such as race,
religion, or other arbitrary classification. (ie, one wears a badge)"
1) Disparate Treatment – Do I need to define this for you Mr. Frank?
It is not about skin color although most cases are brought about that
way.
2) Similarly Situated – Do I need to define this for you as well Mr.
Frank, Crone and I are not similar anything, we are(in case)
identical twins.
3) Improperly Motivated – How about this, know the definition of this
Mr Frank? Mr Crone is a police fundraiser who wears a badge. I am a
police fundraiser that does not, I would imagine that raising money
for cops who make less would be a motivating factor, and holy cow,
that would be improper if ever anything was.
It matters not what anyones intent was under 14-100
which brings me to the next point.
4) Arbitrary Classification – Mr Crone wears a badge and I do not. I
am going to define this for you because it appears you know not the
meaning.
1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity,
reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an
arbitrary choice.
2. Based on or subject to individual judgment or preference: The diet
imposes overall calorie limits, but daily menus are arbitrary.
3. Established by a court or judge rather than by a specific law or
statute: an arbitrary penalty.
4. Not limited by law; despotic: the arbitrary rule of a dictator.
Guess what, Mr. Frank that is GAME SET MATCH!
Mr Frank I am giving you this information as a courtesy, Don’t make
me do this, I AM BEGGING YOU, don’t make me do this, because I will
have your license to practice law in the end. I know the burden of
proof for you to violate the 14th, and guess what you are violating
it, the state is violating it and the feds are violating me by not
doing anything about you, and I will not have it.
Unless you have no clue who I am, (in which case you should resign
now anyway) then you know I will win. The Supreme Court has already
sided with my cause on numerous cases). Your done, you have one week
to right this wrong, or as I promised Crone, I will have you for
lunch as well.
But not to worry Mr. Frank, I don’t just get you, I get another DA
(the one that screwed me) in another County at the same time. Don’t
make me do this. I believe you are a good man caught up in something
you do not understand. I believe they call you collateral damage.
This is your one and only heads up, now get all those jackals you
have working to find a way out and mine will work to keep you in.
Only difference is mine have teeth.
BTW, try to come get me now and you will martyr (literally) me but
this wont stop before your license to practice law is in my coffin.
MY people will continue.
Continue this line Mr. Frank and my advice to you would be to get a
lawyer, matter of fact get a bunch, none will be able to get you out
of this though.
1 man 1 charge by Friday next week. I wish you luck. BTW, I don’t
care about the SBI. Or have you not figured that out by now?
Oh and before you try to quote United States V Armstrong, let me give
you this so you don’t waste time. Your going to need all you got.
Post-Armstrong, a defendant(4) claiming selective prosecution must
establish both that others similarly situated have not been
prosecuted(5) and that the government's selection was motivated by
invidious intent.
Please don’t make me get you more definitions, but I wish you luck if
you have not charged Crone by Friday.
The equal protection clause has to do with the equal application of laws. Nothing, and I mean nothing is being applied equally here.
Now with that,
u r scary.... and on a vendetta then...
no, i have been posting for months, have even defended you once, and some behind the scenes likely know who I am....
anyway, not on a mission to catch you, aren't you caught, seems illogical then, what could society gain?
as for the case, told you i spent too many hours...please copy and paste any reference to the 14th
here is a slightly more defined summary of the case
710 F.2d 1385, affirmed.
POWELL, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BURGER, C.J., and WHITE, BLACKMUN, REHNQUIST, STEVENS, and O'CONNOR, JJ., Page 470 U. S. 600
joined. MARSHALL, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BRENNAN, J., joined, post, p. 470 U. S. 614
what exactly about going to the post office and signing a 5x8 card is against a classification / act that is ostensibly neutral. How is that an obvious pretext for racial discrimination or for discrimination on some other forbidden basis?
As I say, if I am wrong, I apoligize, but in my position I cant be to careful,
And if I am wrong about the 14th then tell me that, dont try to pick my brain and then tell me I am wrong.
That is what makes me think something is wrong with this picture, and since the only way to get at me is on here, I am just being careful, I have pissed off a great many people in the last two months as I am sure you have seen. You can email me on boardermail if you want to talk.
But as I say, if I am wrong, then tell me.
Are you serious with this LOL
What does this have to do with anything? This is an appeal case, not a 14th amendment case
I would love to know what this has to do with the 14th
This is an appeal from Dora Smith's jury conviction for being an accessory after the fact by knowingly receiving proceeds of a bank robbery, exchanging the money into bills of a large denomination, and concealing the money, for the purpose of hindering and preventing the apprehension and the prosecution of the robbers in violation of 18 U.S.C.A. § 3. Only one point of error is raised, i. e., that the trial court erred in denying Smith's motion for mistrial made on account of an unresponsive hearsay answer of Mary Lopez, the chief government witness. We affirm.
2
Dora Smith was the wife of one of the three bank robbers and was fully implicated by the testimony of Lopez. On cross-examination Lopez was closely questioned with reference to her motive for testifying against Smith, extra-marital relationships, arrest record, and the reason she waited for one and a half years following the robbery, when she was arrested on a state charge, to tell her story to the police. On re-direct, after Lopez denied that she hated Smith, the following took place:
3
"Q. Could you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury here going into this conversation that you had with Sgt. Hurd (a police officer) and with Mr. Gee (of the F.B.I.) that he has gone into, now
4
Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury why you are testifying against the Smith brothers and Frank Patman and "
5
Objection was made by defense counsel that this called for an exculpatory, self-serving hearsay answer. The objection was overruled. The prosecutor then asked:
6
"Q. Could you tell us why?
7
A. Sgt. Hurd had told me that he believed they had shot a man "
8
Upon objection the court said, "I am going to sustain the objection and instruct the jury to disregard that statement for all purposes in this trial. You are not to consider that nor base any verdict upon that statement, Ladies and Gentlemen. I am going to sustain the objection to that line of questioning and, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am going to instruct you again that you are not to base any verdict on that statement made by the witness and you are not to consider that statement for any purpose at all."
9
Defense counsel moved for a mistrial which was denied. Under the circumstances we think the trial court exercised sound discretion in the action it took. United States v. Pritchard, 5 Cir. 1969, 417 F.2d 327. As a general rule we have stated that evidence withdrawn from the jury with a direction by the court that it is to be disregarded may not be the basis of reversible error. United States v. Troise, 5 Cir. 1973, 483 F.2d 615, cert. denied, 414 U.S. 1066, 94 S.Ct. 574, 38 L.Ed.2d 471; United States v. Kidd, 5 Cir. 1971, 446 F.2d 1385; Hill v. United States, 5 Cir. 1966, 363 F.2d 176; Conner v. United States, 5 Cir. 1963, 322 F.2d 647, cert. denied, 1964, 377 U.S. 907, 84 S.Ct. 1167, 12 L.Ed.2d 178. Only in cases where the remark is so highly prejudicial as to be incurable by the trial court's admonition is the instruction considered insufficient. This is not such a case. A careful review of the totality of the evidence convinces us that the unresponsive answer of Lopez did not have such a prejudicial effect on the mind of the jury that it could not and was not totally cured by the court's cautionary instruction. The evidence against Smith was easily sufficient to support the jury verdict.
10
Affirmed.
The basis of the problem being faced in Mooresville, is the same as in Iredell County and many other locations. Our elected officials quickly adapt the attitude that they are immortal, and immune from responsibilities and obligations.
North Carolina General Statutes make it very difficult to get rid of them. In order to accomplish this, considering the magnitude of the transgressions, a huge outpouring, and relentless demonstrations are needed.
It can be done!
Harold
Again, it is about the equal application of laws, the 5x8 card you reference is not the case law you site, so you did at least look something up, but then you cite the wrong case.
Good luck to you, I hope "people behind the sceens" to know you, but I dont. Talk to Jaime. Not me.
no, you gave your address as boarder mail? I'm a little shy until I know where it's going...have some info for you.
Thank you Mr. Harold, a voice of reason in a field of incompetence.
I dont want or need it, now I want you folks to get back on topic, if you want me to have it, post it in public
Time for a new article / post.
****Don't forget tonight, the Town Of Mooresville Board meeting, featuring "the Talking Frog,I mean Frank" for your pathological pleasure. Please attend and make a few comments regarding the incompetence/corruption of Mr. Smith and the interference of Mr. Rader. Be sure and arrive before 6:00 to sign up if you wish to speak or just come for the entertainment.**** (Too bad it's not "Liars Anonymous")
Hopefully Tic Toc will be running for office next Nov. He's seems to have lots of extra time on his hands. He must have had a great Labor Day posting to himself on this board.
I agree, Tic Toc for mayor, s/he could not be any worse then what we have.
At one time I disliked Mr Rader but after reviewing the video he will always get my vote. You had all these people make themselves look less than intelligent, boring, and lacking better things to do in life. Who is this Cliff guy anyway. He really needs to find a hobby. Continue on Mr. Rader you are exactly what Mooresville needs.
7:26, you are a waste of perfectly good oxygen.
Yes, continue on Mr. Rader -- with your lies, manipulations, interference with investigations, violations of ethical obligations, and especially with mismanaging the local government. Maybe you and 7:26 can fill us in on the numbers of the CFK accounts, the illegal use of evidence room loose change, and the lack of equity in the application of personnel policies. You and 7:26 make a good couple
I'm with you 7:26!
would you like cherry or grape flavored kool-aid?
Cherry would be great!! Thanks.
And Rader says he doesn't read blogs! He may not reead but he likes to post :)
Today is a new day in Mooresville. We have a new Town Mananger-Mr. Steven Husemann and Mr. Smith is back to Assistant Town Manager. I believe in giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, so today I say "Give the new guy a chance." I know what you are thinking, if this Board hired him, he must be ready to do their bidding, but maybe not. We shall see, but until then, I think he needs to meet the side of Mooresville that wants open and honest government. The word on the street is he is a Boy Scout and places ethics above all else. I think that would be a welcomed breath of fresh air(or poison pill for some)but lets see. Hey investigattons, lets have a forum at the library like the Rader Fest without the budget presentation/distortions and hear what the new manger has to say and give him our expectations as well. Who knows, his management style might be a new flavor in Mooresville that places competence above connections. I'm sure he can answer questions better than Mr. Rader and he will be able to have a dialogue with the "otherside" of Mooresville. So lets hear what you think, and Mr. Husemann, we won't give you the "pinata" treatment like Mr. Rader.(Although Mr. Rader brought it upon himself.)
Oh yeah, I almost forgot:
1) There will be no time limit on questions
2)All elected officials and the are welcome
3)There is no "time out" status to
worry about
4)Standard rules of discourse apply
OOPPSS Sorry about #2, I'm in a hurry--the public is welcome.
Mr. Rader will show all of yous guys whos the boss. The clowns at the meeting can't hold you down.
Yep, Rader's the big boss man alright. Just like his granddaddy was back when he owned all the mills and made his millions off the backs of the millworkers so that Rader could have his trust fund and spend all of his time composing charts and graphs and giving the modern day "millworkers" their updates via skewed email accounts of what is going on downtown. And like yesteryear, there are some who actually like it that way and don't want it to change.
Rader reminds me of Michigan J. Frog on Looney Tunes. When you open the cigar box in front of his owners, he sings to the top of his lungs. But when news of his singing reaches the public and they wants answers, he slumps down in the box and goes"uuurrrrp".
I can't believe you guys want Tic Toc to be your mayor. This is a guy who says he can barely contain himself from breaking the law. You guys are nuts.
Hell, I'll take anything over what we got now. Do we even still have a mayor? Anybody know?
This posting has nothing at all to do with Mr. Radar, but with something that I heard today that has really uspset me. It may be mere gossip and that is why I put it before my fellow citizens. My tax dollar is paying for firemen to sleep and run errands in a firetruck. I was told that the firemen work a 24 hour shift. That floored me! As I thought about it more, I realized they had to sleep sometime in that 24 hours and if they did not, then I would hate for my house to catch on fire at that 23rd hour. They also take the big firetrucks to Food Lion, Walmart, etc. for food or whatever. Gas is not cheap and I know that my tax dollar is paying for that as well. Someone tell that this is not the case, so that I may in turn tell the group of people that heard this as well
I just heard today from a friend I used to work with at the Iredell county sheriffs office about the whole Cheif Crone thing. Although I am no longer a Deputy or a resident of Mooresville/Iredell Co I feel the need to say something personal about Frank Rader. 10 Yrs ago Mr Rader helped me become a great wrestler. He spent his Saturdays helping me learn technique and strategy. He seemed to be a good honest man and volunteered as NCUSA wrestling treasurer for many years. He had large amounts of money pass through his fingers during his time as treasurer and I never heard any controversy about missing funds. He has donated alot of personal money to Mooresville High school and I am sure he has donated money to various other places I am not aware of. Its a difficult job serving in local government and you cant make hasty decisions.
4:17 A.M. You seem like you mean well, but you also seem very naive. I am sure Mr. Rader is a nice enough person, but he exercised tremendously bad judgment when he waltzed into a police department during active investigations of its police chief and tried to sway prospective witnesses (i.e. the officers) to throw their weight behind that police chief. The fact that he helped you wrestle 10 years ago and donated some money here and there without stealing it does not change what he did less than two months ago. We now find out that the police chief's transgressions may include abuse of federal funds as well as state funds, not to mention the charity fund we all already knew about. Commissioner Rader's actions may very well constitute obstruction of justice and witness tampering, and with the federal issue the stakes have just risen higher than ever. Poor judgment has landed many a "good man" in prison, and none of us are immune from that rule, not even a commissioner who volunteers for good causes in his free time.
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