Something isn't adding up with MI-Connection.
After reading the Mooresville Tribune's recent article on the town commissioners' planning retreat - http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/ - I was left with the impression that town officials may know more than they're letting on.
And that wouldn't be much of a surprise. After guaranteeing public money for MI-Connection, town officials quickly grew uneasy with public requests about the communication system's financial health and marketing/sales plans. While we own the system, we've been told that some information can't be shared with us. Why? Because it could end up in the hands of our competitors, which could prove detrimental to the success of our $92.5 million (so far) communications system.
The little that is being shared with the public is important. But what's typically more important is what is not being said. Such as this: a Feb. 2 letter from the N.C. Department of State Treasurer to Evan Webster, former Davidson town commissioner and chairman of the MI-Connection board of directors. The letter, in essence, states that the Local Government Commission, in its audit of MI-Connection's FY 09 financial statements, found that the system "has serious financial problems which the System's governing board must address immediately." To read the full letter, click on each document to enlarge:
Perhaps it's information like this that is causing our town board to seem a little off-kilter recently. The topic of MI-Connection apparently led to an exchange between Commissioner Miles Atkins and Mayor Chris Montgomery at the board's recent planning retreat, where Atkins - a member of the MI-Connection Strike Team - agreed to make a presentation about MI-Connection. (http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/)
But that exchange, taken in context, appears to be a small piece of a much larger picture. That "context" may have been provided in a letter sent by Commissioner Mac Herring to Montgomery earlier this week. In the letter, Herring confronts the mayor about his "lack of leadership."
Referring to the planning retreat in particular, Herring writes: "During the entire 2 day session you only made 1 comment, and that was a personal attack on Commissioner Atkin's [sic] presentation of where we are with MI-Connection. You contributed NOTHING to any other conversation. You were frequently doodling or texting. At least twice an hour you would get up and leave for 10-15 minutes, sometimes for 30 or more. Though present, you were absent.
"For you to sit in our Strategic workshop and not engage in the conversations, offer your opinion, ask questions and help provide direction for out Town's staff is inexcusable...especially as your attention was elsewhere and and you were frequently elsewhere," Herring continued. "It almost seems as if you are choosing to abandon the duties and responsibilities of the position to which you were elected."
To read Herring's letter in its entirety, click on the documents below:
After reading the Mooresville Tribune's recent article on the town commissioners' planning retreat - http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/ - I was left with the impression that town officials may know more than they're letting on.
And that wouldn't be much of a surprise. After guaranteeing public money for MI-Connection, town officials quickly grew uneasy with public requests about the communication system's financial health and marketing/sales plans. While we own the system, we've been told that some information can't be shared with us. Why? Because it could end up in the hands of our competitors, which could prove detrimental to the success of our $92.5 million (so far) communications system.
The little that is being shared with the public is important. But what's typically more important is what is not being said. Such as this: a Feb. 2 letter from the N.C. Department of State Treasurer to Evan Webster, former Davidson town commissioner and chairman of the MI-Connection board of directors. The letter, in essence, states that the Local Government Commission, in its audit of MI-Connection's FY 09 financial statements, found that the system "has serious financial problems which the System's governing board must address immediately." To read the full letter, click on each document to enlarge:
Perhaps it's information like this that is causing our town board to seem a little off-kilter recently. The topic of MI-Connection apparently led to an exchange between Commissioner Miles Atkins and Mayor Chris Montgomery at the board's recent planning retreat, where Atkins - a member of the MI-Connection Strike Team - agreed to make a presentation about MI-Connection. (http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/)
But that exchange, taken in context, appears to be a small piece of a much larger picture. That "context" may have been provided in a letter sent by Commissioner Mac Herring to Montgomery earlier this week. In the letter, Herring confronts the mayor about his "lack of leadership."
Referring to the planning retreat in particular, Herring writes: "During the entire 2 day session you only made 1 comment, and that was a personal attack on Commissioner Atkin's [sic] presentation of where we are with MI-Connection. You contributed NOTHING to any other conversation. You were frequently doodling or texting. At least twice an hour you would get up and leave for 10-15 minutes, sometimes for 30 or more. Though present, you were absent.
"For you to sit in our Strategic workshop and not engage in the conversations, offer your opinion, ask questions and help provide direction for out Town's staff is inexcusable...especially as your attention was elsewhere and and you were frequently elsewhere," Herring continued. "It almost seems as if you are choosing to abandon the duties and responsibilities of the position to which you were elected."
To read Herring's letter in its entirety, click on the documents below:
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593 comments:
1 – 200 of 593 Newer› Newest»Herring should be ashamed for writing such a letter to the Mayor. If he had a problem and was much of a man he would talk to him face to face instead of hiding behind his computer and sending it out so just certain people would see it.
The MI Cable is everyone's problem now only because three (3) councilmen and a want to be a great mayor which he never was listened to them and then broke the tie and probably also broke the town.
They still try to mess people up by hiding things in the report and still trying to use Rader math.
Mayor Chris Montgomery is new only beginning his job and this his third meeting and first retreat. He has to learn also because I am sure that the others were not experts when they began.
The people of Mooresville regardless of the number of people that voted elected Mr. Montgomery our Mayor and I will assist him in anyway that I can and the next election I will vote for him again and will vote out all the others except Mr. Houston who seems to be the only one that cares about the people of Mooresville.
The "Letter", although good intentioned, is the ranting of a person who feels he isn't as important as he was under the previous regime. He has been snubbed and his well meaning albeit childish attempt to get your attention is proof.
We, the people of Mooresville, expect our Mayor to perform and provide Leadership. The previous Mayor provided this Leadership, however faulty it might have been. Mr. Montgomery, stand up and be heard. Don't be afraid to make a mistake; the previous regime made a few magnificent boners. You cannot do any worse. Who cares how much coaching Gamball provides, that is his job!
Listen to the People and the people you trust and be highly wary of the old clique. Use the abilities of the current Commissioners to their fullest. It would be nice to get some use out of them for a change.
Now back to the MIC mess. If this isn't going to make money in the near future (5 year horizon), send out a non- binding Request for Quote and see if anyone wants to buy the system. The quote returns will give you a better indication of true worth. The Town can then make a decision based on fact. Rader math is gone. Virtually every data point presented by Rader and used for purchase justification has been proven wrong.
This Town can ill afford an asset which does not make money, or in this case cover its debt. Mr. Montgomery, yes, we are asking you to fix the old regime's mistakes.
That is why we elected YOU!
Shame on you Mac, one of the click that got us in this mess !!!!
What did you and your cronies know only after 3 meetings and one retreat. Obviously, you didn't learn much all the time you sat next to your mentor, Rader, and voted this town into a mess.
Have enough testicles to address the Mayor face to face, and not grandstand in front of everybody and show how ignorant you can be, and not how a politician should behave.
I think you owe the Mayor a public apology, and get Thunberg and Rader out of your craw, and do what's right for the residents of Mooresville.
Mayor Montgomery campaigned on unloading MI-Connection. I don't recall any mention of selling it for a loss of $60 million dollars, though.
Maybe we should pay more attention to the promises that candidates make when they run for office.
I think we owe Miles Atkins and Mac Herring a dept of gratitude. It sounds like we need to drive up the value of MI-Connection before we sell it. Educating the Mayor that 'we' elected sounds like first step in doing what's right for the residents of Mooresville.
I voted for Chris to but this doesn't mean that he gets a free ride. Chris might need some time to get some experience but texting and drawing in a meeting about planning for the future??? These people have to make big decisions and their supposed to use their time at the retreat for this. Just because we like Chris doesn't mean that his feet shouldn't be held to the fire just like everybody else. If the town fathers are discussing MI-Rejection or anything else, I'd hope they are all paying attention. Sorry Chris but if this stuff is true you need to be paying more attention to our business instead of social networking.
Chris you better shape up or Mac's gonna sic the Beautification Committee on you. No more geraniums for you.
Mac is one of those who needs to be run off the board. the only reason he's on is because he had no opposition. Mac has an air of superiority because of being a "native son" of Mooresville. Big Whoop. Native or not, he needs some opposition in order to get him out of that position. Carney needs opposition to get him run out. And we need to get the town to review the code of ethics to deal with some of the committees whose membership is appointed by the board.
Mac's whining makes me laugh. Keep making them whine Chris -- then maybe they'll shut up and do the RIGHT things for the citizens.
My Town Hall office hours are Tuesday and Thursday from 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. I will also make myself available any other day per request. I invite anyone to drop by to discuss issues, ask questions, or share concerns. It may be a good idea to call first in the event I am attending scheduled functions, chamber events, or visiting residents and/or businesses. My personal cell phone number is 704.663.9115. If for some reason I miss your call please leave a message and I will do my best to get back with you as soon as possible. Thanks.
MR. Mayor,
You have said that line over and over. Now is the time for you to do your mayoral duties. Quit sitting on your hands and get something done before it splinters the town.
its does not take 3 months to learn to pay attention at a meeting. This is not the first Meeting for the Mayor. He ran his campaign on water and sewer rates and never said a word in two days on this issue. How long do we expect to educate Mr Mayor before he becomes a leader. This town needs a leader now. Not 6 months from now. The MI is not the only issue for the Town. there are many other important issues that we need the Mayor to step up to. He needs to be in Raleigh fighting for us. If we want to see him we should call for an oppointment out of respect. He is not the Maytag man waiting in his office for someone to show up. Get out and do the job. Get us governmet money to fix our roads. The Schools in town are up for another 6% cut on top of last years 9%. Mr Mayor get to Raleigh and get us some money to keep one of the best school systems in the state in business. 40 teachers were laid off last year. How many more will there be this year. And you are worried about the MI-Connection. the future is our children and there education. Not the stinking cable TV.
It is extremely disconcerting to me that our Mayor was that withdrawn during the retreat. As I read the letter Commissioner Herring sent to Mayor Montgomery, I do not hear nor I see a person "grand-standing" as the letter was sent as a more formal communication and by the content of the letter the most effective way to reach Mayor Montgomery as apparently Commissioner Herring has on more than one occasion tried to reach out to the Mayor with little or no success.
I think this letter should be taken as a wake-up call by the Mayor from a concerned Commissioner who appears to be trying to assist the Mayor as he takes on a role he is inadequately prepared to handle. MI-Connection is a serious issue, one that as another Commissioner put, "the babies here; we have to take care of it" but MI-Connection is only one issue and honestly it is not the primary or most pressing as it has the means to correct and provide for its own "care and feeding"; Water/Sewer, Schools, Core Infrastructure Improvements, Economic Development, and Community Growth are all issues that need attention and strategic leadership. These are issues that have to have the guidance of competent elected leadership. Whether on the job 3 Days or 3 Months, as the duly elected figure head of our community, Mayor Montgomery has an obligation to each of us to, as Commissioner Herring put it "Step to the Plate" and do his best to be the leader he was elected to be. In his defense maybe he followed to old adage: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool as opposed to opening your mouth and removing all doubt"
We should give Mayor Montgomery time to learn the job and become familiar with parliamentary procedure, but, we should also prepare for a recall. I'm sure the 1066 residents who voted for him expected him to do the job.
Has Mooresville ever had to recall a Mayor?
We should give him time to learn because all of these other great know it all commissioner's already were experts in parliamentary procedure's when they started. They make great decisions just look at their record.
There never has been a recall election and the way the town government is set up a recall cannot not happen. I think that that was tried a two or three years ago. Give him time he will be better that what we had. He has to be he will not have Rader to listen to like Thunberg did.
Everyone is missing the real problem. We now own a cable system that will probably not make a profit. OUR PROPERTY TAXES COULD GO UP AGAIN. Our government is supposed to be limited. That is why government should not be in private business and not subsidizing things like the golf course and bus rider. Limited government means the basic things like roads, fire, police,water and sewage,schools,etc. and then with the taxpayer in mind. Spend, spend, spend and tax, tax, tax that is all government knows. Our town government should be cut including benefits like longevity pay, 401K,pensions, health insurance and cars and any perk other than pay. The average taxpayer must pay for these things. We the taxpayers are suppose to be the boss, so why does government get more than we have. The taxpayers of Mooresville need to stand up and say enough is enough and starting voting and attending meetings. Mac Herring and Chris Carney got us in these cable mess and no one would run against them. Chris Montgomery may be on a learing curve, but he didn't cast the vote that gaves us the $92.5 million and growing cable mess, Bill Thunberg did.
No, it sounds like the real problem is a guy who ran for office on a lark and has now found that the job is more than he's prepared to handle. I hope that isn't the case.
The other real problem is that the new mayor wants to sell MIC at a loss of over $60 million dollars. Unless we're looking at real and sustained losses by MIC, common sense tells us to hold on until we can sell it at break even, at least.
We can all agree that the Town getting into the golf and cable businesses were bad ideas. We should all agree that losing money is equally bad. The golf course sounds like a money pit. Unloading that seems to be a no brainer. MIC is a little more complicated.
As to paying Town employees minimum wage, we could try that. Just hire part timers, maybe use migrant workers. You get what you pay for, though.
Dear Mr. Gregory,
If you want the town to cut their benefit package to the employees how long to you think it will take before the town employees leave for other jobs. The town would not be able to recruit any good, professional, qualified people for the jobs. The pay for most town employees is not equal to the private sector so benefits help off set the pay difference. If you believe the town employees are so well paid the next time they have a job opening your are qualified for feel free to apply.
"Mayor Montgomery campaigned on unloading MI-Connection. I don't recall any mention of selling it for a loss of $60 million dollars, though" -- and I'm sure you would agree that this figure was not available during the campaign so there was no way for any candidate to fully grasp the depth of the poor decision of the board members who voted to purchase Mi-Connection. That notwithstanding, we can sell it and lose $60 million today, or we can keep it and lose even more money later. Either way we lose money -- I'd prefer to cut and run now. This is not a baby, this is a debt and one which will continue to grow until we get rid of it. The real "baby" that is here and needs to be taken care of is the citizenry which will suffer by paying higher taxes to cover the ever-increasing losses.
I wonder if the focus placed upon Chris by Mac and Miles is an attempt to deflect the public's attention away from the reality -- which is that the Mayor has no real power to change anything. The Mayor's role is extremely limited with the real power of decison-making specifically and legally vested in the rest of the town board. The mayor's duties/responsibilties are to preside over meetings and to serve as the ceremonial official head of the town (see GS 160a-67 and GS 160a-69).
As for recall of officials, I'm all for having the option for recall and submitted a request to the board to change the town charter to allow the citizens to have that option. However, there was no support from our elected officals. So unless the citizens gather enough signatures to force a referendum, citizens will not have the option to recall anybody.
Is MIC projecting losses of over $60 million dollars? If so, I'd agree that dumping it now makes sense.
Why did you want to want to change the Town Charter to allow the recall of the Mayor if the position is so incidental?
I don't post anonymous so you know who I am. I don't know the exact numbers but I would bet the average pay for the government workers is the same or greater the the private sector. That is true at the state and federal level. We the taxpayer cannot continue to be taxed while government grows. Anonoymous do you and your family have longetivy pay, paid health insurance, pensions and other perks? I don't. I have to pay for my families health care and I have to funded my retirement. The government workers are suppose to work for us, not us working for them. And as far as losing good people that maybe be so, but everyone can be replaced. The town commissioners have not just dug a hole they have dug a canyon for the town and drastic measures must be taken and that does not mean raising taxes of the citizens who said they did not want the cable.
I'm more interested in having recall for those situations in which an elected offical violates law or behaves unethically -- my concern isn't directed towards the mayor or any particular commissioner -- I was just responding to somoeone earlier who talked about recall
I do believe the figure posted for the loss is the figure presented to the MIC board -- but I can't say for 100% certainty
Mr. Gregory, that's a couple of 'supposed to's that you've posted. I'm not sure why you assume that government is supposed to be limited or why government workers are supposed to work for you.
We're being governed, whether we like it or not.
Paying people what they're worth isn't a bad thing. Giving people incentives to do jobs isn't wrong.
This is interesting reading. It doesn't make the case for selling MIC:
http://www.ci.davidson.nc.us/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=171
If what we got under the previous mayor was leadership, then perhaps we have had enough of it.
I'm not finding any projected losses that make the business case for selling at a loss:
http://davidsonnews.net/2010/02/25/consultant-mi-connection-is-first-class-but-can-cut-expenses/
Objecting to the purchase now is pointless. Correcting 'big government' by losing $60 million dollars is just cutting off our noses to spite the guy who isn't Mayor anymore.
you're not going to find it in the local news agencies ... you'll have to do a freedom of information request to get the documents from MI which will spell out all the information
i don't object to it b/c of the former mayor - -i don't believe governemnt should own a business
This is disturbing for a number of reasons.
As someone who voted for Chris I would expect he would offer some input on how to solve problems, not leave the meeting for extended periods.
It is equally disturbing that Mac Herring chose to air his problems with the mayor in a widely distributed email, rather than talk with him or just email him personally.
I also wonder why our fearless blog leader, Jamie, did not pick up the phone and get Montgomery's answer to these fairly serious charges that are being thrown around. Seems like the fair thing to do....
While all of this may smell kind of funny....the real "stinker" in the whole mess may be in the way the previous MIC Board was running the system. If the State Treasurer says we have "serious financial problems" that must be corrected immediately you can't help but fear that the SS Mooresville is heading in to some icy waters....
To Larry Gregory,
I agree with you somewhat. I do not have cable and would never condone that a public government be in private business. However with that said if you live in Mooresville how do you suggest the town pay for the services provided to you such as police, fire, sanitation etc....I don't believe any of the people providing those services are getting rich by any means. Just for your information the employees have to pay for their family insurance and retirement is deducted out of their checks each pay period so it is not free. Please do yourself a favor and go talk to one of the town employees and maybe they can enlighten you on some of your concerns
Mr. Holian our country was founded on limited government with the people and the states give up some rights to the federal government.
Read the U.S. Constitution. All government employees are paid by our taxes so they are working for us. And to anonymous all benefits should be paid employees. That may sound bad, but I and most everyone that works in private sector have to pay for their benefits. Taxes are for the police, fire, etc. not longevity pay and such. And yes I live in Mooresville and pay the high taxes and high water rates. I work hard for my money and I don't want the government to keep taking more and more.
Brian, I think the figure you're looking for would be most likely be a combination of the purchase price, the cost of upgrades, the debt repayment, and the yearly losses as compared to the current market value of the company. This link was posted in another section of this website and provides more reflection on the budget and numbers: http://davidsonnews.net/2010/02/25/consultant-mi-connection-is-first-class-but-can-cut-expenses/
As for the consultant and the newspaper article , I don't place a lot of stock in either because I don't know what information was edited out for the article and also because the consultant's evaluation appears to have significant flaws: 1)MIC provided the data and there is no indication as to what information they provided other than to refer to it as "basic" information; 2) The analysis apparently did not include an on-site visit; 3)The consultant compared MIC only to companies he owns or has owned, which signficantly diminishes the reliabilty/validity of his evaluation.
Regardless, the article and our elected officials indicate MIC will continue operate with a loss, will continue to deplete the town reserves and have resulted in the working budgets of the towns being altered in order to cover the shortfall for MIC.
Those of you who have MIC will enjoy a higher fee, fewer customer service representatives, and slower response times. We will all probably face a tax increase in the near future to help pay for MIC.
So I'm still left with sell it now and lose $60 million as Atkins says, or sell it later and lose signifianctly more. Personally, I think selling it now so we don't have to cut into the budgets for essential services makes significantly more sense than continuing to carry the albatross just because we have it and the "baby is here."
Mac Herring is a blithering idiot who rambles on about nonsense. He had "high hopes" for the mayor. Is Mac supposed to be some sort of father figure -- trying to put shame/guilt on the Mayor? What a bunch of crap. Boo-hoo-hoo, Mr. Herring is disappointed about something. Let's throw a little pity party for Mr. Herring!
Where was this indignation when you put the town at risk with MIC, the water plant, the firing of town engineers, and CFK? Nowhere. You sat there and did nothing -- probably doodling and drawing yourself.
I've never had difficulty getting in touch with Chris, and I know many others who have the same experience. It's the rest of you sorry lot who hide and don't engage in debate and open discussions with the citizens.
The only reason you're back in office is because nobody ran against you. I would call that apathy, not a show of support. Somehow, I also don't think this was the lowest voter turnout ever -- it was higher than in previous years.
Mr. Gregory, I have read the U.S. Constitution. Including all of the amendments. Perhaps you should take your own advice:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec2
You see, The Founders created more than the four pieces of parchment that Glenn Beck likes to wave around. With Article V they created a living document, one that could be changed over time to do such things as abolish slavery, give everyone other than white men the right to vote, and create such things as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And even Health Care Reform.
Government is 'supposed' to be limited because you think that was the intention of The Founders? Well, according to The Founders, blacks were 3/5th's of a person and women were chattel.
It's unlikely that ALL of The Founders would agree with your statement. Certainly not Hamilton or Burr.
All government employees are paid by our tax dollars. Not YOUR tax dollars, Mr. Gregory. They work for the government. The government governs us. Your over simplification sounds great at Tea Parties, but, it doesn't make any sense and it flies in the face of reality.
Your certainly entitled to your opinions, but, that's what they are. They aren't facts, just what you've decided to believe, or, more likely, been told to believe by someone on FOX.
I think we'd have a very hard time keeping just the Police and Fire Departments staffed if we followed your advice and paid minimum wage with no benefits. Sounds like what governments in 3rd world countries do. Some of us live 'in town' because we want to have essential services.
Mac "Hold one til the swelling goes down" Hearing needs to lighten up on smoking the dopeage before letter writing.
MI Connection people in VA and CH2Hill swindled Millions of hard earned tax payers money along with the developers over the last 10 years.
STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY YOU BUNCH OF DUMB ASSES. LEAVE THE SPECULATING TO BUSINESS.
Quit jumping through hoops for free lunch and other goodies. Oh hope ya'll had fun in Hock-a-lugie Germany.
HINT: Hey Chris, it's a meeting. If you have bladder problems they make medicine for that.
Don't think the other or old board members were better.
Hey Doosenberry, stay away from the friendships and egos and clicks. Vote like it is your money.
Mr. Gregory you are correct.
But the money is not wasted with most employyees.
It's the budget process. There is no incentive to save. It's spend it if you got it and hide behind the computer till pay day.
Oh wait that's what most people do. I was fortunate and moved out a few years ago. My new house ain't worth what I paid, but I don't pay city fees.
Brian Holian...
This is from the consultant's report
"Buford’s study comes as MI-Connection tries to figure out how to turn losses into profits. The system lost $6.4 million in the 2008-9 fiscal year. The task is an urgent one. MI-Connection last month asked Davidson and Mooresville to make up a $576,000 shortfall this fiscal year. And the funding gap is expected to widen next year, mainly because of increasing payments on the $92.5 million in debt the towns took on to buy and upgrade the system.
The towns so far are making up the shortfalls through cuts in their own budgets, or by dipping into reserves. Bigger shortfalls could mean deeper town budget cuts or even tax increases – something the towns had said when they bought the system in 2007 wouldn’t happen."
If this isn't a reason to dump MIC, what would be?
Essential services will have to suffer. Taxes will have to be increased.
The current system is worth around $60M, regardless of the low ball figure presented by an ill informed Mooresville commissioner. To continue to plow money into this whimsical venture is insane.
I have to tell you, I agree buying MIC was a bad idea. I think considering selling it makes sense. I'm still looking for real numbers, though.
We have a Town Meeting in a few days. Perhaps we'll learn something there.
Brian Holian...and Group
Here are the 'real numbers'. Google Cable subscriber value and you'll see for yourself.
Exact numbers are extremely hard to determine and are based on how many subscribers have one, two or three services and what their Video/ Pay per view viewing patterns are. The MIC Board will not release those numbers.
Additionally, the value of the system is also based on how technologically advanced it is. In MIC's case, it is basically new 'plant' which should increase its intrinsic value. Additionally, value is based on its proximity to the purchasing company's current base. For instance, MIC could be worth more to Time Warner because TWC would not have to invest maintenance dollars because they are local and could use their current maintenance staff and facilities.
As a base value, $4500 per subscriber is a good starting point (refer to your Google search). So, $4500 times 15000 subscribers is about 67.5M.
Note, this number is radically different than the number presented by an ill informed Commissioner at the 'retreat'. Unless of course, this Commissioner has vested interest in highlighting the potential loss number to underscore his 'save the baby' theme .
Either way, it further demonstrates the point that our Commissioners are not Cable system (or business) knowledgeable.
The Town Board has focused too much time and energy on the MIC debacle and they will have to devote even more time (and our tax money) to incubate this 'baby'. Tell them to stick with TOM infrastructure issues and move this Town out of the doldrums.
What is the potential pay-off to the Town for MIC? Profits that will offset tax increases? Not likely. Lure additional Commercial establishments into the Mooresville area by offering High Speed services? Not likely due to the high infrastructure costs of reaching these areas coupled with competitive services offered by others.
So what precisely will MIC bring to the table if not profits or jobs? What is the justification for pouring more tax payer money into MIC?
At the risk of sounding stupid -- can you give the specicic link/reference for your assertion that $4500 is a good starting point? I've googled as indicated and have found a huge chasm in the figures so I want to see what you were looking at to begin to understand your position.
Thanks,
Larry
I have read the Constitution and limited government is exactly what the founders wanted and our Republic is to be and it doesn't matter if Burr or Hamilton agree and it is not a "living" document. The Constitution is the law of the land even though many are trying to destroy it. If you want to change the Constitution you can with amendments. I was never said minimum wages for anyone. I just want government to be responsible with "our" money. And as far as a "third" world country, we are heading that way with the massive debt and lost of freedoms.
Good Morning Mr. Gregory,
Burr, Hamilton and others were The Founders.
None of us know what The Founders wanted, we only know what they were able to agree to. Assuming that they were of one opinion is nonsense.
You sound angry. I wasn't trying to make you mad. But, by your own admission, we can change the Constitution with amendments. Yet, you say that the Constitution isn't a living document. That is a contradiction. I understand that you don't like the phrase 'living document'.
I'll continue to call it that, but, when speaking to you, I'll call it 'a document you can change'.
It would be great if your beliefs were founded on facts and not presented as true, accurate or particularly sensible. You are entitled to your opinions. Just not your own 'facts'.
Mr. Green,
I also did a Google search and came across a range of numbers.
Someone posted this:
"The current system is worth around $60M, regardless of the low ball figure presented by an ill informed Mooresville commissioner. To continue to plow money into this whimsical venture is insane."
Since MIC won't release it's customer mix of services to the public, we have no way of knowing what it's worth. However, Miles Atkins should have access to that information. There is no reason to assume that he's 'ill informed'.
Since Mr. Atkins did not vote for either the purchase or the upgrades we have no reason to assume that his position is 'interested' or vested. I'll stick with his numbers until someone can post something factual.
I believe Miles said we'd stand to lose about $60 million if we sold it today, not that the system is worth $60 million, but I'd have to go back and re-read his comments.
For me, the ToM has alreayd indicated and admitted it has historically been "ill informed" about MIC. Various commissioners have indicated a lack of accurate and timely feedback from MIC to the ToM, which one can verify by reading their statemetns/quotes in various newspapers and throughout this blog. The major re-shifting in the MIC was directly correlated to the need to put in place a board which would be more forthcoming. Atkins was prepared to submit a document to the ToM board asking for the immediate removal of former MIC board chairman as a sort of vote of no confidence in his leadership. That document was not submitted b/c the Town of Davidson assured the ToM that this individual would not be reappointed to the MIC board.
Additionally, Atkins and Carney voted "no" for the $12.5 primariy because elected officials were not allowed to serve on the MIC Board. Atkins and Carney appear to believe that elected officials serving on the board is essential in order to have accurate communication between the MIC board and the town board.
Atkins and Carney, I believe, serve on the town's task force for MIC, so they might have a little more insight into the actual figures. But I don't know how much information they're privy to since they're not actually on the MIC board.
And therein lies one of the major problems with this entire set-up. MIC can hide behind it's need to protect data so that it doesn't find it's way to the competition, which means that ToM and the Town of Davidson, and more importantly the citizens, have no real clue about the whole situation.
Mr. Carney opposed elected officials serving on the MIC Board because there was a concern there might be conflicts-I think Jamie or The Trib have a story from this past summer where Carney pointed out that the 'system broke' with a Davidson Commissioner at the helm.
Agree with all that the Cable deal was bad from Day 1- the writing was on the wall but the electeds refused to acknowledge.
Can't spell debacle without C-A-B-L-E.
Larry Green and Brian Holian,
I can understand your doubt about my $4500 base amount per subscriber. In fact, I mentioned exact numbers are difficult to determine, however my estimate is based on an educated guess of going rates.
"Exact numbers are extremely hard to determine and are based on how many subscribers have one, two or three services and what their Video/ Pay per view viewing patterns are. The MIC Board will not release those numbers.
Additionally, the value of the system is also based on how technologically advanced it is. In MIC's case, it is basically new 'plant' which should increase its intrinsic value. Additionally, value is based on its proximity to the purchasing company's current base. "
The ill informed Commissioner mentioned the system is only worth 30M dollars. That would make the value per subscriber $2000. That is a ridiculously low number and basic Cable subscribers in the 1980's were valued around that number!
My conclusion of $4500 was based on the following:
1. The system has been upgraded; it can offer the triple play of phone, cable and internet.
2. It has an embedded base of 15000 subscribers (no need to spend marketing dollars to acquire them).
3. It is in close proximity to another system and would require minimal work to morph into that system. The acquiring system would be able to handle the increased traffic with virtually no increase of Bandwidth purchases.
4. Other Cable acquisitions ranged from $3500 to $6000 per sub.
An interesting note: MIC costs us 92M divided by 15000 or $6100 per subscriber which was outrageous for a dilapidated system. But that is water (tax dollars) under the bridge.
Here are a few of my references. To reiterate, my numbers are roughly right. Not exact but in the ball park.
www.democraticmedia.org/files/presentations/KohlUSC.ppt
Here's another...
www.multichannel.com/article/66409-Data_Subs_High_Value.php
And here's another which shows the valuation before the release of enhanced features.
www.forbes.com/2005/04/21/cx_da_0421topnews.html
We need to deal with the realities of the current situation and make decisions based on DATA and not politics.
We cannot get into the head of Atkins and his reason to low ball the subscriber worth and quite frankly, it is immaterial. To announce that figure demonstrates that anything we hear from the politicos should be highly suspect.
Take my numbers or leave them, that is your God given choice. If you have better numbers, let's hear them but to rely on a politician's word is not data driven.
Although we do not know what is going on behind the closed doors and how bad the situation really is, we can make educated estimates. When these estimates vary wildly from what we are being told, we need to say to our politicos "BS Man, you are all wet!"
To Anonymous:
No offense. I'm just inclined to believe that Mr. Atkins may have actual numbers that he shared with our mayor. Or at least numbers that he believed to be fact based.
You could be 100% on the mark. You could also be someone more interested in 'fixing' the problem by building a case for unloading a significant investment by the town because you believe in limited government. And because you believe that we'll lose more, long term, than we can hope to gain.
In any case, all of us are just guessing. We don't know the mix of services so we don't know what the customer base is really worth. We don't know what the projected losses or profits might be.
The town has got to find a way to put management in place who will share information with the owners of the company. Then we can make a business decision. Or suggest a business decision to our Commissioners. And the mayor of course. If there is a tie.
Thanks for the links -- they're helpful. We've invested $92.5 million so far, which actually comes out to $6,166.67. And since it has 666, that is evidence enough for me that we should get rid of it -- sorry, that was the pastor coming out in me.
Thanks for the great conversation. It's good to know we can have it without making an enemy out of anyone simply because we have differing viewpoints.
I have a couple questions. We all seem to be in agreement that the purchase of MIC never should have taken place. If it turns out that long term MIC can be turned into an asset that generates the kind of profits that can be used to offset municipal expenses and give us all a break in increased property taxes, would we want to hold on to it?
Or is limited government more important than lower property taxes?
For Pastor Green:
I think we're already on shaky ground discussing politics, I just wanted to share this link with you because I found it interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast
Thanks for the link. I actually included that in a study on Revelation and the whole # issue here at church. Rather interesting and informative.
Regarding whether or not to keep MIC, I personally am 100% opposed to the town/government owning a business. The fact that it's been a drain on the resources makes that easy to say. I would hope I'd say the same even if MIC were making a profit.
I am not angry, but I am frustrated that Americans do not really know about our country and its founding. Yes the Constitution can be changed with amendments, but most liberals call it a "living" document that can be changed with interpretations,not amendments."We the people" are the ones in charge, not the government. We have let our government get out of control and now we are nearing bankruptcy. If our elected officials actually did what they swear to do, uphold the Constitution, we would not have $12 trillion of debt and a $107 trillion unfunded liability. We have elected officials passing laws that do not apply to them, in bed with lobbyists and special interests and giving themselves benefits and pay we the taxpayer does not have. Closer to home the same thing is happening. Our elected officials did not listen to the people and bought the cable thinking they were going to make lots of money and now the town is in seriously trouble. The town is subsidizing things they should not and our town budget has increased 12.45% a year for the last 5 years and water rates gave gone up over 135% while the taxpayer's salary has be stagnate and inflation has been 3%. This is why our town, our state and our federal government is in trouble and "we the people" will suffer because we have not exercised our Constitution rights to hold the elected officials accountable. And if any of you reading this care about your children, you better get involved before it is too late. Great Republics do not fall from out, they fall from in when the people become complacent with their hands out. When Rome fell over 50% of the city of Rome was getting wheat from the government so they could eat. This is where this country is going, big government and no personal responsibility. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupt absolutely. President Ronald Reagan summed it up best, "government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.
Perhaps Mayor Montgomery was actually LISTENING to staff reports and recommendations, as well as citizen comments. The content of those reports could and should be used by all commissioners to learn more about issues BEFORE opinions are formed.
And with Commissioners and top level staff that we have here in Mooresville there probably want be any wheat to eat. They will still be trying to pay off Rader's, Carney, Herring, and of course our FORMER (thank God) Mayor's mistake and no telling what other crazy ideas they will come up with.
Just look and read the paper not the Tribune I mean a real paper and watch TV every town in our area is cutting back services and unfortunatly laying off people but not our town. Just go to the city hall and look how many people are employed there that don't do much. Assistant Town Manager a prime example
Mr. Gregory said:
“I am not angry, but I am frustrated that Americans do not really know about our country and its founding. “
It’s too easy to assume that because someone disagrees with your beliefs and your opinions, or simply points out to you that your beliefs and opinions are just that, that they don’t know about our country or its founding.
We’ve proven otherwise in our brief exchanges.
Some people do not believe that The Founders ALL sought limited government, and, regardless of what The Founders envisioned, they were far from perfect and some of their compromises were absolutely appalling. They also were able to change their minds, Mr. Gregory.
Washington changed his mind about slavery, Jefferson said many things about slavery and his actions had little to do with his rhetoric, Franklin said many things under any number of pen names and acted many roles, and both Adams and Madison were conflicted over the role of the federal government. Alexander Hamilton wanted deficits and the kind of military we have today.
Lots of Americans really do know about Our country And its founding. They just don’t agree with you.
If, by some miracle, the cable company one day did make money I would still be opposed to government ownership, primarily because I have no faith at all that the surplus would be returned to the investors.
Can anyone tell me the last time Mooresville taxes went DOWN?
Assuming the value per subscriber is somewhere in the middle, and we would lose $30-40 million if we sold the system, what would be the impact on the taxpayer? I'm also assuming the town owns nothing they could sell to offset the loss so they would have to raise taxes to pay off the debt. What kind of impact would that have on the taxpayers?
Where is our "numbers man" Commissioner when we need him!! Oh wait.he got us in to this mess....
Mr. Gregory said:
“Yes the Constitution can be changed with amendments, but most liberals call it a "living" document that can be changed with interpretations,not amendments.”
Can you give us one example. The next ten words, Mr. Gregory. That was a sound byte. The Constitution of the United States can not be changed through ‘interpretations’.
Tell us what you mean? Or where you heard the line.
Mr. Gregory said:
"We the people" are the ones in charge, not the government. We have let our government get out of control and now we are nearing bankruptcy. If our elected officials actually did what they swear to do, uphold the Constitution, we would not have $12 trillion of debt and a $107 trillion unfunded liability. We have elected officials passing laws that do not apply to them, in bed with lobbyists and special interests and giving themselves benefits and pay we the taxpayer does not have.”
Hyperbole and more sound bytes, I’m afraid. One example of how our elected officials are failing to uphold the Constitution would be helpful. Saying it does not make it true.
Every member of the House and Senate is not corrupt. Too broad a brush.
Everything you said about lobbyists is beyond question, of course.
Mr. Gregory said:
“Closer to home the same thing is happening. Our elected officials did not listen to the people and bought the cable thinking they were going to make lots of money and now the town is in seriously trouble. The town is subsidizing things they should not and our town budget has increased 12.45% a year for the last 5 years and water rates gave gone up over 135% while the taxpayer's salary has be stagnate and inflation has been 3%. This is why our town, our state and our federal government is in trouble and "we the people" will suffer because we have not exercised our Constitution rights to hold the elected officials accountable.”
Didn’t those of us who decided to exercise our constitutional right to hold our elected officials accountable do that, both nationally and locally last November? Bill Thunberg is no longer our mayor and President Obama is now in the White House with a majority in both Houses of Congress.
Mr. Gregory said:
“President Ronald Reagan summed it up best, "government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.”
And the next ten words? That’s the problem with politics in this country. The attention span and the depth of the electorate. It isn’t really lobbyists, corrupt politicians, the ‘failure’ of anyone to understand the intentions of The Founders, the panderers on FOX or the wishful thinkers on MSNBC. The problem is us.
Other than cutting taxes for the rich, what did Ronald Reagan accomplish?
That isn't something that we can address in a 10 word sound byte.
I spoke with Maia Setzer, Director of Administration & Finance with the Town of Mooresville last Monday, Feb. 22 following the Town Board retreat to get clarification on what impact selling MI-C would have on our finances. The following is what Maia shared with me after she consulted with our bond attorney and underwriter for the MI Connection loans.
The Towns of Davidson and Mooresville would be required to “satisfy” both the Certificates of Participation ($80 million) and the Installment loan ($12.55 million) at the time of the sale of the system. Both loans placed liens on the system and we will have to get rid of the lien in order to sell the system.
A complicating factor is that we cannot pay off the Certificates of Participation until 2017. Therefore, if we wanted to sell the system before 2017, we would have to create an escrow that matures in 2017 providing for principal and interest payments until then. Our underwriter indicates that reinvestment rates are so low that we would have to deposit more than the outstanding principal of the COPS in order to have enough funds to make those payments.
We did secure the option to pre-pay Wachovia for the Installment loan ($12.55 million) and paid a slightly higher interest rate for that option at the time we borrowed those funds.
I am in agreement with those who don't believe we should be in this business, and would like nothing more than for us to be out of this endeavor. However, these are the cards we've been dealt and I'm working on putting them all out on the table so you know what we are up against. What I think we can all agree on is that we are in a very difficult position. What will help is your input and engagement in finding a solution to minimize the financial burden that has been placed on the town and our taxpayers.
I would welcome the opportunity to meet with any and all who are interested in discussing how we can best address this issue and work towards a viable solution.
Thank you, Mr. Atkins.
Mr Atkins,
Thank you for your comments.
I noticed an item in Monday's Board Meeting agenda where the Town is looking at "loaning" MIC another $400,000 to be paid back by 2015.
In lieu of the comments by the State Treasurer about the "serious financial problems" with the MIC Board should this loan be looked at a little more closely?
At what point are we throwing good money after bad and at what point will the MIC shortages effect town services, as it has already in Davidson?
I agree, it's a mess we're already in so there isn't a lot of point in debating SHOULD we be in but I'd sure feel better if they didn't have a "blank check" with the taxpayers name on the top...
Jim,
We are being asked to consider a budget amendment authorizing a loan to MI-C for $396,415 to be payed back in full in 2015 or under terms the ToM Board may determine. This loan would allow MI-C to balance their current year budget and complete the appeal process for the sale and use tax reimbursement to MI-C. This loan represents the ToM's share (68.75%) of MI-C's request of $576,604.
Your question are very valid and the reality is in addition to this request we will be asked at some point in the next 12 months to cover the debt service of $5,000,000. We are legally required to make this payment if MI-C is unable to satisfy. That doesn't include any additional capital that will be needed. There are no more blank checks...just big checks unless we can turn the system around and build subscriber base.
This will have a direct impact on our 2010-2011 budget and we touched on this during our retreat. You can expect to hear more about this during the budget process.
What would help is if our elected folks would be totally honest and forthcoming with information related to our economic situation and the fact that we have been saddled with a tremendous burden. Let's not forget there was no public support for this, and there still isn't any support to keep this business. I could not care less if you or Herring don't like the Mayor's leadership style. You got a problem with him -- go to him instead news sources. I have never had any difficulty getting in touch with Chris and haven't a clue as to why you folks can't seem to find him.
If you didn't get with Setzer until after the retreat, where did your figure of losing $60 million come from? Did you just pull that out of nowhere?
What do you mean we have to wait until 2017 to pay the $80 million? Who set up that deal?
And while I'm on the subject of open and honest government, what are you doing to rectify the clear conflict of interest in having developers on the planning board and the appeals board. The Oates Road developer is on the planning board and should have been removed from the board in order to prevent the appearance of unethical practices within the town board. And have you removed the developers from the appeals board -- particularly those who are involved in the development known as Langtree.
Miles,
Thanks for the answers to my questions. I'm not sure where you find a "spare" $5 million without hitting people hard in essential services.
Davidson has fewer police officers on the street today thanks to MIC and I fear next year we'll be in the same boat.
I applaud all efforts to try and dig out of this mess.
Paster Green, it sounds like Commissioner Adkins is being totally honest and forthcoming. And taking time away from family on a Sunday to do what most of our Representatives would never dream of doing. Talking to us. I'm grateful for it.
Your defense of the Mayor is mis-placed, too, don't you think? Mr. Atkins didn't write the letter that the Mayor's friends and supporters are finding so offensive. All Mr. Atkins is reported to have done was talk to the Mayor.
Mac Herring shouldn't be any harder to find than the Mayor? He's the guy you have a beef with.
Now that you've asked some questions, I'm sure Mr. Atkins will do his best to answer them.
Larry, where is Mr. Mayor while we're all talking about this stuff? Doodling? Texting? Way to pick new leadership :)
We know he reads this. He gave us his cell number. He ain't typing, though.
Mr. Mayor? Care to text here for a little while?
What do you intend to do about the management at MIC? You gonna make them talk? Fire them if they don't? Sell MIC no matter how much money we end up losing to make Harry, Larry, and Mary vote for you again next time?
And what are you gonna do about all them developers that Larry wants kicked of our boards?
Have to speak up. I CAN'T HEAR YOU :)
Brian? You're missing the point. And you can't spell. Larry likes pawn shop guy. Mac and Miles made him look like a dummy. A lazy dummy. Now Larry is mad. Larry can't blow up Mac, so, he's all over Miles. See, Larry doesn't care why we can't sell the cable company, he just wants it sold. Just like pawn shop guy. Read what Larry said. He doesn't care if it's making a profit. He doesn't care if it makes a profit. We shouldn't own golf courses or cable companies. This is easy to figure out after three or four beers, man.
Mr Atkins,
Thanks for joining the dialogue. It is most welcomed!
1. "There are no more blank checks...just big checks unless we can turn the system around and build subscriber base." How can this feasibly be done? The MIC footprint is set, TWC is overbuilding MIC's territory, Direct and Dish are yanking at your customer base. In other words, building the customer base is just not going to happen. I hate to be negative here but we are all tired of idle words.
2. As Larry Green asked, I also need to ask. "If you didn't get with Setzer until after the retreat, where did your figure of losing $60 million come from? Did you just pull that out of nowhere?" Your subscriber worth number of 30M is hard to believe, especially when MIC cost us 92M. Maybe you were misquoted in the 'Press' but you can clarify your calculations here.
3. Shouldn't extraordinary expenditures be put to the Town people for approval? Is there some level, above which, the governed can have input? You and your Town Board peers, by your own admission, embarked on this poorly thought out endeavor, against the wishes of the attendees at the Town meetings. (yes, I was at each and every one of them.) If you are going to spend more of our money, shouldn't we have a say?
4. If the Town Board is still determined to stay in this venture, they should conduct an open meeting and fully disclose the financial impact? No more behind the doors massaging of numbers or press releases, no more Rader math but a free and open discussion of TOM's MIC predicament. I challenge you, personally to get this accomplished if you truly mean what you said above.
5. What steps have been taken to actively market MIC? Has it been offered to TWC or BVU or anyone else?
Again, thank you for joining this dialogue. It is time to get our new Mayor engaged in a coherent, transparent discussion of 'facts'. His honeymoon is over.
I appreciate Mr. Atkins posting on this site as well to answer questions. I am a frequent reader here but this is my first time posting.
As has been stated, we're stuck with MIC for the time being whether we like it or not (I don't). It clearly isn't advantageous to offload the asset at this point so it is counter productive for any of our town officials to pursue it.
Unfortunately because the town owns MI the options for raising capital are more limited than in a standard business environment. One option the town should consider is Royalty Financing. Get an infusion of captial now based on future sales through MI. They shouldn't go nuts on it, but enough to cover this year's shortfall is manageable in my opinion.
It's critical the balance sheet be deleveraged as quickly as possible. The goal should be to increase the asset's value with the ultimate goal of selling it. Most likely back to TWC in the future.
Anonymous said...
"3. Shouldn't extraordinary expenditures be put to the Town people for approval? Is there some level, above which, the governed can have input? You and your Town Board peers, by your own admission, embarked on this poorly thought out endeavor, against the wishes of the attendees at the Town meetings. (yes, I was at each and every one of them.) If you are going to spend more of our money, shouldn't we have a say?"
Were you really at a meeting where Miles Atkins voted for the purchase of MIC? I thought the Board made that decision before he was elected. Maybe you saw someone who looked like Mr. Atkins? Tall guy? Dark hair?
Other than that, great questions.
Now Miles is the great communicator in telling us that we are up the proverbial creek with the large debt that we owe thanks to him Thunberg and Rader. The public was not allowed to vote on this matter and now we are stuck!! NO MORE MONEY GOES TO THIS PROJECT!!!!!!!! The same goes for the famous Golf Course Master Plan. NOT TEN MILLION OR TEN CENTS.
Anonymous said...
"Now Miles is the great communicator in telling us that we are up the proverbial creek with the large debt that we owe thanks to him Thunberg and Rader."
I think Mr. Atkins is trying to explain why selling MIC now is a bad idea. Because of all the words he typed. The ones about money.
How is he responsible for buying MIC when he wasn't on the Board when it was purchased and is on record, prior to his election, as having been opposed to the purchase? And he voted against the $12.5 million in upgrades. He has shown zero support for the project. He's just trying to help all of us make the best of a bad situation.
Miles wasn't on the board when the town voted to purchase MIC. And he didn't vote to approve the $12.5 additional funds.
I apologize to Miles for sounding harsh. He and Carney were the only elected folks to participate in the town hall meeting we held last year at the library. He and Carney were open to answer any questions posed to them. Maybe that's something we need to do again?
I am pretty sure that all the commissioners visit this site from time to time. I know that Mitch Abraham, Chris Montgomery, and Miles Atkins have contributed in other posts/discussions. So I would not find it difficult to believe that the others have visited as well.
I make no bones about selling MIC. By all estimates it will continue to operate in the negative and will impact essential services, as Miles indicates in his previous response. Sell it now for the loss we anticipate, or keep it and sell it in the future at a loss which is even greater. I don't think risking essential services such as police, fire, and sanitation is worth continuing to hold onto a losing hand. I would be interested in knowing the specifics about why we can't sell the thing until 2017 -- that just doesn't make sense to me right now. And I really do not think government should be in the business of owning and operating businesses. Just my political viewpoing to which you're welcome to disagree -- but I don't make any apologies for that view.
Brian, you're right -- I don't need to defend Chris -- he can do that all by himself. If he hasn't been up to par, he needs to change. And if the Board hasn't been working up to par, then I expect the same from them.
Thank you, Pastor Green.
I agree with you that our Town doesn't need to be in the cable business or own and operate a golf course. I just haven't made the decision to get behind the sale of MIC, yet. And what Mr. Atkins has told us so far has made it less likely that I will, at least until 2017.
As to Chris Montgomery needing to defend himself, or be defended, I was just trying to point out that I haven't seen Mr. Atkins do anything to paint the Mayor in a bad light.
My hat is off to you, Mr. Atkins. Thank you for being part of the solution and for asking us for our opinion. I'm speaking for a lot of people when I say it means a lot. Thank you.
Larry, ignore those 3 stupid posts about "where is Chris" and loving the pawn store man -- whatever that means. They're just trying to get you to address tham at the scum level where they live.
Atkins -- you gonna answer the rest of the questions posed to you?
Hey, where is Chris?
Mayor Doodlebug?
You can say what you want about our buddy Chris, but, nobody said he fell asleep during the meetings. And he found his way to the retreat.
You go Chris!!!!!!!!
Make them whine....just don't get sleepy :)
Vic Marquis said...
"I think you owe the Mayor a public apology, and get Thunberg and Rader out of your craw, and do what's right for the residents of Mooresville."
Should Mac say something like, "Mr. Mayor, I apologize for telling you that all you did was doodle and text and disappear at the retreat. I understand that telling you that makes the people who voted for you seem really, really stupid. Almost as stupid as the people who defend the behavior and want more of it."
How about Chris apologizes for wasting our tax dollars? By doodling and texting and disappearing the whole time? Better yet, how about some of his buds admit that they elected the first guy who stumbled down Mainstreet Mayor?
We're all going to miss Bill Thunberg before Eric Cartman finishes his term as Mayor.
"I voted for Eric and you will respect his authoritay."
Bunch of mor roons :)
Big Mo No Mo said...
'Atkins -- you gonna answer the rest of the questions posed to you?'
I got a question for that Atkins fella. What was Chris doodlin'?
Was our new mayor drawin' pictures of ships and planes? Puppies and kitty cats? Was he drawin' pictures or was he makin' like big circles and loops an stuff like that? Now, I didn't vote for mayor. But, I think we need to know if Chris is a serious doodlebug or just a halfway doodlebug before we think about reelecten' him.
I'm okay havin' a mayor who'd rather draw than pay attention. I just don't think we need a mayor who don't take his doodlin' serious.
I know all Chris' friends and supporters don't care what he does, or whether he does the job or not, they voted for him and that's all that matters. They prolly know more about his doodlin' than me.
chrismontgomery said...
"My Town Hall office hours are Tuesday and Thursday from 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. I will also make myself available any other day per request. I invite anyone to drop by to discuss issues, ask questions, or share concerns. It may be a good idea to call first in the event I am attending scheduled functions, chamber events, or visiting residents and/or businesses. My personal cell phone number is 704.663.9115. If for some reason I miss your call please leave a message and I will do my best to get back with you as soon as possible. Thanks."
Well. Thanks?
Chris? We're right here, man. Wouldn't this be a great place to talk to us? Heck, man. Tell us the meetings were so boring you had to doodle to stay awake. Tell us you were texting and that you don't plan on doing it anymore? For that matter, man up and tell us it's nobody's business if you were texting or not. But, something.
Poor old Larry is trying to have your back. Telling you to keep making them whine. Like your texting and doodling and disappearing act was something to be proud of. Poor old Larry. You just hung him out to dry, Chris.
Larry,
The presentation I gave on behalf of the MI-C strike team addressed several questions ranging from refinancing the debt to looking into a joint venture with another provider. Selling the system was also discussed and what I said was there has been some very preliminary discussions with an interested party to purchase the system. However, I was informed that the interested party would only be willing to pay $30 million for it. I don't have any additional details, and only shared this during the retreat to confirm selling the system is an option being explored. My understanding is the value of a subscriber is between $3,000-$4,000 and with 15,300 subscribers the asset would be worth $45-$60 million. We paid $3,700 and what someone else is willing to pay us is closer to $2,000. What Mrs. Stezer confirmed for me was if we did sell it for $30 million the Town of Mooresville would have to come to the table with $62.5 million in cash to close the deal.
Thanks Miles. So we could sell it prior to 2017 if the terms were right?
What is the MIC strike team? Who is on it and when does it meet?
I'm glad to hear that selling it is being considered.
vic -- did you take your meds? or is your money train up now that the old regime is out of office? you gonna run for office since you go to every meeting and know more about the town than anyone else? great! vic the dic for mayor
Mr. Atkins,
1. You mentioned "We paid $3,700". But that was only initially and that price was set by the bankruptcy court. Then MIC had to pony up additional dollars because the Towns supposedly didn't know how bad the system really was and needed this additional capital for improvements. So my numbers mentioned previously are on the mark.
"An interesting note: MIC costs 92M divided by 15000 or $6100 per subscriber which was outrageous for a dilapidated system".
Can you explain why you are only quoting the initial 3700 and not the actual cost of MIC?
2. "value of a subscriber is between $3,000-$4,000 and with 15,300 subscribers the asset would be worth $45-$60 million. That is a reasonable but may be a bit low due to the plant upgrades and additional features of MIC. $60M is a justifiable number which agrees with the estimates I presented a few days ago.
Thanks again for your participation.
Anonymous said...
"An interesting note: MIC costs 92M divided by 15000 or $6100 per subscriber which was outrageous for a dilapidated system".
$80 million was the purchase price. $12.5 million was the amount the Board provided for the upgrades. Not sure if that helps.
Brian,
I never said Atkins was there. I said I was! Please re-read my post.
"Were you really at a meeting where Miles Atkins voted for the purchase of MIC? I thought the Board made that decision before he was elected. Maybe you saw someone who looked like Mr. Atkins? Tall guy? Dark hair?"
Additionally, now that you've seen the 'real' numbers from Atkins which coincides with my estimates, maybe you'll believe knowledge is not only found inside Town Hall. Not to be critical but there are many people, other than the Commissioners, with business acumen.
We need these checks and balances to ascertain whether our governing bodies are accurate or protecting their rear ends!
The previous regime was so furious with TWC that it clouded their judgment and good sense. They did a haphazard job of surveying the plant and customer base and determining capital requirements. TWC representatives were at the Town meetings and proposed a one year upgrade to the system if the Town did not buy the assets.
The Town refused, along with disbelieving smirks on the faces of some Commissioners. After the acquisition of MIC, TWC upgraded the remaining non MIC assets and now has a plant on par or maybe even above that offered by MIC.
Again, demonstrating that there needs to be general populace oversight on our Town Board. Their conceit and blindness got us into this debacle!
By using the knowledge of the governed maybe we will have better discourse. Quite honestly, I would much rather our Town Commissioners got into heated, open door, this topic only session so we can see how they stand.
Anonymous said...
"Brian, I never said Atkins was there. I said I was! Please re-read my post."
Okay, here is what SOMEBODY posting anonymously said:
"3. Shouldn't extraordinary expenditures be put to the Town people for approval? Is there some level, above which, the governed can have input? You and your Town Board peers, by your own admission, embarked on this poorly thought out endeavor, against the wishes of the attendees at the Town meetings. (yes, I was at each and every one of them.) If you are going to spend more of our money, shouldn't we have a say?"
You and your Town Board peers.....implies that Miles Atkins 'embarked on', began the journey, or was at a meeting where the purchase was made while serving on the Board, which we know isn't the case, at a meeting at which you were supposedly present "against the wishes of the attendees at the Town meetings. (yes, I was at each and every one of them.)".
You'll forgive me for reading what you wrote?
As to your guesstimate? Looks like you were pretty close to the value.
Since Mr. Atkins told the Mayor what MIC was worth to 1 perspective purchaser do you still contend that he is an "ill informed commissioner"?
To Mr. Anonymous,
I just went back and re-read my responses to your posts. I never doubted the value of the 'knowledge of the governed', just the knowledge and motives of the anonymous. You'll recall that I said 'no offense' and said that you might be 100% on the mark? I also said you might just be someone more concerned about selling the asset because you, like others, are more concerned with limited government than with our financial position.
I find your posts interesting and informative and I do understand that there are reasons why some feel the need to post anonymously. Kudos on your numbers, and, again, no offense intended.
Mr. Holian,
So you are OK with the elected officials wasting taxpayer's money. Yes there are elections to get people out of office, but usually after the damage is done. We have been on a slow but sure trail of liberism since Woodrow Wilson. We did not have and income tax until the 16th amendment was passed, because it was unconstitutional. Now look where that has gotten us? It hasn't matter if it is republicans or democrats, most are the same. Some founders did disgree with our Constitution, but the Constitution was ratified as it was and could only be changed by amendments. Example of interpretations: "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. 1st amendment said "establish" not separation. This came from papers of Thomas Jefferson in Virginia before our Constitution was written and was due to the fact that Virgina was requiring taxes to fund the church in Virginia. Slavery was and is wrong and most of founders wanted it stopped at our founding, but they couldn't get the southern states to go along so a compromised was reached. That was bad and we fought a Civil War to correct this error. Another example of interpretations is that congress has only certain powers delegated to it in Section 8, but has got around these "limited powers" by interpretation of the commerce clause. Congress and the states want to tax internet transactions but so far have been stopped because of section 9. Mr. Holian you can have your opinion and free speech that was given to you by our Constitution, but like it or not our Constitution is the only thing that stands between us and corrupt leaders. Benjamin Franklin said "we have a Republic if we can keep it". We are losing our Republic fast.
Good Morning, Mr. Gregory,
You said...
"Mr. Holian, So you are OK with the elected officials wasting taxpayer's money."
No, I'm not. However, I think if you and I got into the details of our federal budget, or at least Health Care Reform, we'd disagree on what you and I consider 'wasting taxpayer's money'.
I know we disagree on the salary levels and benefits, such as they are, paid to our Town employees. I don't consider fair wages and benefits designed as incentives for good employees a waste of taxpayer money.
I'd be interested in how you determined that I was in favor elected officials wasting taxpayer money. Something I posted?
You went on to say:
"Yes there are elections to get people out of office, but usually after the damage is done."
While we can call on our Representatives to censure those colleagues that some of "We the People" believe, or claim to believe, to be in opposition to our individual 'interpretation' of The Constitution, elections are our only constitutional means of calling our federally elected officials to task. Are you suggesting that we change The Constitution to empower us to create additional constitutional rights to oust Representatives before the 'damage is done'?
You called on us to exercise our constitutional rights and I reminded you that we did that in November.
BH
You mentioned, "I also said you might just be someone more concerned about selling the asset because you, like others, are more concerned with limited government than with our financial position."
Yes, I am truly concerned with Government overstepping its bounds. Governments getting into business is simply the wrong thing to do and this has been demonstrated by our current situation.
There are also privacy issues; MIC has the capability and need to monitor viewing habits of its subscribers. Do you want the Town to know what programs you watch, what Pay Per View or Video on Demand you order? MIC can and does monitor these patterns. And on the voice side, do you want your calling patterns monitored by a Governing body? MIC does monitor call patterns without the need for a wire tap document. And on the Internet side, MIC (BVU) monitors internet usage and site visitation to make sure Bandwidth capabilities.
Please do not infer this information is actually given to the Town but they CAN get it. On the other hand, in order for the Town to determine if the system is being run efficiently, they need to know some of the above details.
And on the Financial side of your comment. We are **NOW** in a financial predicament. We currently own a system worth 1/3 of what it cost. Our Town overall's worth has been reduced by $60M. If we sell MIC or not, we, the Town, are worth 60M less.
So should we hold or fold? Should we bet more tax dollars that competition, technology, programming costs, subscriber uncertainty will suddenly turn the odds in our favor? It'll take a monumental change of odds to recoup the 60M ALREADY lost (plus whatever additional future dollars).
As for my anonymous posts, I choose to remain in the background and I beg your indulgence for doing so.
Larry Gregory said...
"We have been on a slow but sure trail of liberism since Woodrow Wilson."
No disagreement here. Nor any hand wringing. I'm a firm proponent of properly funded Social Security and Medicare. I'm still waiting for the collapse of America that Ronald Reagan told us we could expect with the passage of Medicare.
I find it heart warming that the current batch of Republican in both Houses are following President Reagan's Medicare model of trying to frighten the electorate in their opposition to real Health Care Reform. Representative McHenry no better example.
It's fascinating that Republicans supported a $300 billion dollar unfunded giveaway to Medicare recipients (likely Republican voters), but oppose saving the lives of 45,000 Americans annually who die because they have no health insurance.
Liberalism isn't a bad thing if taken in moderation.
As a fiscally conservative Republican, I'm fine with our government providing entitlements to the poor and the unemployed. Provided that they are funded.
Larry Gregory said...
“We did not have and income tax until the 16th amendment was passed, because it was unconstitutional. Now look where that has gotten us?”
It got us income tax? I fail to see your point. The Constitution was amended, and, in the process, federal income tax became constitutional.
You also said...
“Some founders did disgree with our Constitution, but the Constitution was ratified as it was and could only be changed by amendments. Example of interpretations: "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. 1st amendment said "establish" not separation. This came from papers of Thomas Jefferson in Virginia before our Constitution was written and was due to the fact that Virgina was requiring taxes to fund the church in Virginia.”
And I would argue that The Constitution remains unchanged based on the separation of church and state. The Supreme Court ruling against certain issues because they found that they at least ‘implied’ the establishment of a of a national religion didn’t change The Constitution.
Larry Gregory said...
“Slavery was and is wrong and most of founders wanted it stopped at our founding, but they couldn't get the southern states to go along so a compromised was reached. That was bad and we fought a Civil War to correct this error.”
Yes. A compromise was reached. All of The Founders did not believe in one idea. Similarly, all of The Founders did not believe in limited government. We only need to compare the Articles of Confederation to The Constitution to see what a difference 10 years in the life of our Union made.
Limited government is a core belief of the Right, and they are entitled to it. They aren’t entitled to hide behind their ‘interpretation’ of the intent of The Founders to defend it or extol it, however. Unless, of course, they begin with ‘in my opinion’. That separates fact from convenient fiction.
You also said…
“Another example of interpretations is that congress has only certain powers delegated to it in Section 8, but has got around these "limited powers" by interpretation of the commerce clause. Congress and the states want to tax internet transactions but so far have been stopped because of section 9.”
You still haven’t provided a single example of an ‘interpretation’ that has changed The Constitution, Mr. Gregory. You are free to disagree with the interpretations of the Supreme Court and the Congress, but, your point remains an invalid one. The document is unchanged. The fact that the Supreme Court and Congress do not share your ‘interpretation’ does not make their actions less valid. It only promotes your angst.
Larry Gregory said...
“Mr. Holian you can have your opinion and free speech that was given to you by our Constitution, but like it or not our Constitution is the only thing that stands between us and corrupt leaders. Benjamin Franklin said "we have a Republic if we can keep it". We are losing our Republic fast.”
I’m much less concerned with corrupt leaders than I am with the people who come to Tea Parties with signs that say:
“We came unarmed….this time.”
“Bury Obamacare with Kennedy.”
“The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.”
We have a long history of indicting and convicting corrupt leaders, Mr. Gregory. We don’t know what the lunatic fringe is capable of, though.
I don’t agree that we’re losing our Republic. We have free and open elections, since the passage of several amendments, our Representatives, most of whom are far from corrupt, meet in both Houses, in spite of the abuse of the filibuster by Senate Republicans, and our President is hard at work on our business.
The Republic is doing fine.
We’re both entitled to our beliefs and opinions, Mr. Gregory. We do a disservice, though, when we present them as facts, or assume that everyone agrees with them, or that those who disagree with us don’t understand our history or the issues.
We were meant to disagree.
I'm curious. How do you feel about Labor Rate Based Import Tariffs as a way of restoring lost production jobs and paying off the deficit? Raising the retirement age prior to payment of Social Security retirement benefits and raising Social Security and Medicare withholdings in order to fully fund those programs?
Mr. Anonymous said...
“Yes, I am truly concerned with Government overstepping its bounds. Governments getting into business is simply the wrong thing to do and this has been demonstrated by our current situation.“
I agree, at least where MIC and the golf course are concerned.
“There are also privacy issues;”
Excellent points.
“And on the Financial side of your comment. We are **NOW** in a financial predicament. We currently own a system worth 1/3 of what it cost. Our Town overall's worth has been reduced by $60M. If we sell MIC or not, we, the Town, are worth 60M less.”
Agreed.
“So should we hold or fold? Should we bet more tax dollars that competition, technology, programming costs, subscriber uncertainty will suddenly turn the odds in our favor? It'll take a monumental change of odds to recoup the 60M ALREADY lost (plus whatever additional future dollars).”
I think we should hold, at least until more information is available. I don’t know what the projected losses or revenues are, and I’m not sure what additional losses will be incurred if we sell prior to 2017. I trust that Mr. Atkins will help us all learn what we need to know to make informed decisions, though. And hopefully we can help our Commissioners make the right business decision once we have the information we need.
“As for my anonymous posts, I choose to remain in the background and I beg your indulgence for doing so.”
Understand, completely.
3/1 8:16 is right on as it relates to the attitude towards TW. Let's dig deeper here: A Meck County official was serving as the cable consultant to the towns under the old Adelphia regime and had an axe to grind with TW:
http://charlotte.johnlocke.org/blog/?p=668
If you were at the debate this fall, you saw that Mr. Thunberg believed that they were doing the right thing because of all the corporate greed that the Adelphia top dogs had been convicted of. Problem was, TW was not and is not Adelphia.
How does it make sense that the 2nd largest communications provider in the US (largest in NC)could be outdone by a smaller provider? The economy to scale on capital and programming would be the tipping point. Lake Norman had small providers with Lakeside and Prestige-guess what?? They figured out they couldn't play with the big boys over a decade ago. Why should things be different now?
Adelphia was a mess from top to bottom and TW was not allowed to touch the system (beyond day-to-day) until the towns figured out what they were going to do because of the right of first refusal. Once the other (see:Smart) towns dropped out and went with TW-how quickly were the lines upgraded?? Pretty quick from what I hear. Even areas west of 77 where M-I was supposed to be the provider, TW came in and started offering service BEFORE M-I.
I see many intelligent posts all echoing what was said back in those meetings in '06-stay out of the private sector. There are plenty of folks out there who saw this coming but I hope that those on this blog reach out to the electeds who are trying to fix the current situation as we all have a vested interest at this juncture.
Folks. Here's the deal. If anyone would take a stronger look within MIC, peel back the onion a little (just a little bit) you would see what the real issues are within MIC. And there are real issues starting with the management of MIC. Anyone can drive by MIC and see the parking lot full of stuff that was OVER purchased on the budget to rebuild the system. I encourage anyone to step into the building and request a tour of the facility. Look around the organization and see what is obvious of the people whom are working at MI-C. And just who is managing the chaos? Professionalizm is lacking throughout this organization. And just look at the facility for which these people have to work. It's really a pathetic mess. Mr. Hall is a bi-polar disorder, and people are in fear of their livelihood.
Mr. Holian,
I've never met a true conservative that feels the way you do. If you haven't looked at this web site you should, usdebtclock.org. You will see what President Reagan was saying about Medicare, not to mention the other failed government programs. If you are OK with all of this you can not be a true conservative. There is no further discussion needed on the Constitution and interpretations, because I presented you actual proof. Thank God for the Tea Parites, because they may have stopped Obamacare and more socialism. And our Republic is in trouble, because of groups like ACORN, no proof of who is actually voting, foreign money involvement and all the money from speical interest and lobbyists. Our so called elected officials are not representing us like the founders estabilshed. When they vote they do not vote for us. 60% of Americans do not want Obamacare and they continue trying to ram it down our throats. You may be happy with all this, but I hope you do not have any children or grandchildren because they are going to pay dearly. We should have the fair tax and we will have plenty of jobs. Look at the depression of 1920 and see what Harding and Coolige did and the results. And as far as Social Security it should have been privatized many years ago before the government rob the money. A county in Texas opted out of Social Security in 1980. They will now pay their retirees 3 times what S.S. is promising with full disability, $250,000 of life insurance and when the person dies, all the money goes to the families. I'm all for help those in true need, but we have funded welfare since the early 60s and now we have a 40% dropout rate in school and a 40% out of wedlock birth rate. Personal responsibitity, only help those that are truly mentally or physically challenged not lazy baby making people. You are capable of working and don't you don't eat.
Mr. Holian ????
You sure do post a lot but I have one question.You have all the right answers but do you really live in Mooresville? Do you own property here?
Apparently you are a renter or maybe someone is letting you live on their property.
I have checked the Iredell County web site and looked under the apprasial card part and NO!!! Holian by any name owns property here in Iredell County. Anyone can check and see this for them selves.Do you even pay any taxes here in Mooresville or Iredell.
Just checked and you are right. No Holian listed.
Click on the icon beside his name..just a bloger I quess..even that blog is strange as the dickens
Anonymous 10:04 am.......Hold or Fold MIC. Good Question. I believe M'ville should hold with a different management company. The current one, Bristol Virginia Utilities hasn't a clue to how to make good management decisions, from hiring the wrong person "construction guy" to run a business, to hiring a "know it all marketing salesman whom is over-paid and under-delivering on the revenue/sales venture of MIC. He quacks loudly with humor, but can't remember discussions from the day before. Just an old geezer trying to look and act younger than he really is and mismanaging the current MIC and using the new guy as a scapegoat for his failures. So hang onto MIC but find a company who can management an up and coming company into the next phase. Not some old schooled good ol boy......
Larry Gregory and B. Holian,
With all due respect, please stay on topic;MIC and its future. If you want to debate your political views, please take them to POTUS or some other open political blog.
There have been some interesting and pertinent discussion of MIC but it is getting lost in your prolific political view posts.
Thanks
I am appalled by Mac Herring's letter calling out Mayor Chris Montgomery. I can explain some of the reasons why Chris had to leave the room.
A very close friend of mine died on Valentines day, when a family member went to city hall to pay for the plot at Glenwood Cemetery we were informed that no one was at town hall to accept the money so we could intern her ashes on Saturday the 20th. We had family and friends come to town from New York, Tennessee, Georgia and Florida and we had planned on the graveside service for Saturday and since we couldn't pay for the plot due to the Town Planning Session, a lot of people would have missed it.
I called Chris late Wednesday night and he called me back and told me he would see what he could do.
I know he was handling this on Thursday and Friday and could explain some of the reasons why he left the the room and was texting.
Due to Chris's hard work we were able to pay for the plot and get her buried on Saturday.
Thus with his help, he took one of the hassles away from us, so helped several families and numerous friends out during a time of grief.
I would like to remind Mr Herring, that the town board works for us citizens as well as the Mayor.
There was a reason why Chris was elected and Mr Herring seems to forget that EVERYONE citizen at the meeetings were against the purchase ,we wont forget the YES vote Mr Herring casted when the next election comes around.
For the several hundred people that Chris helped during our time of grief a heartfelt thank you, and to Mr Herring, shame on you.
Anonymous 2:54
Even with aggressive, forward looking Management, MIC's future is very poor which brings us back to the main theme. Holding onto a losing asset and pouring more money into it just doesn't make a lot of sense.
MIC is worth 30M according to Atkins, which is more than 60M less than what has already been spent. Should we allow this deficit to grow?
MIC leadership cannot right this sinking ship. Pouring more money into it will not right this sinking ship. The future is bleak. As Anonymous 10:41 pointed out, MIC cannot compete with the "Big Boys"
If this was a standalone Company, it would soon go bankrupt but because of its relationship to the Towns MIC continues to draw money from much needed and essential services.
my apologies. i was on topic and was drawn off subject by what now it appears to be an outside blogger. i've stated my objection to MIC from the very beginning in 2007. that is why i ran for mayor so i could try to stop the cable. if you haven't read my comments earlier, please do so.
Larry Gregory said...
“Mr. Holian,
I've never met a true conservative that feels the way you do. If you haven't looked at this web site you should, usdebtclock.org.”
I know, Mr. Gregory. No one who isn’t in complete agreement with you or Shawn Hannity can be a ‘true conservative’. Nevertheless, I’m a fiscal conservative, worked on Nixon’s last run, Ford/Dole, supported President Reagan’s first run. I appreciate the link to the ‘debtclock’, but, I can see it on FOX.
“You will see what President Reagan was saying about Medicare, not to mention the other failed government programs.”
Ronald Reagan wasn’t President when he opposed Medicare. His main objection was political, not economic: he considered it Socialism. The government would tell doctors where to live and practice, etc.
“There is no further discussion needed on the Constitution and interpretations, because I presented you actual proof.”
You’ve presented your opinions and what you’ve heard on FOX. No ‘proof’ of anything whatsoever.
“Our so called elected officials are not representing us like the founders estabilshed. When they vote they do not vote for us.”
Cite an example? Sounds like more FOX noise, Mr. Gregory. Representing us like The Founders established? What does that even mean?
“60% of Americans do not want Obamacare and they continue trying to ram it down our throats.”
The polls vary. Having watched and listened to the Republican and FOX lies over the last year, and having watched the poll numbers decline steadily when it became clear that a public option wasn’t part of the Senate version, I’m not surprised that 60% aren’t in favor of the bill. Today. A year of lies goes a long way.
56% of voters were in favor of Health Care Reform when they elected the President, though. Perhaps, once all the deals that “Conservative Democrats” blackmailed their caucus for are stripped out during Reconciliation and a version closer to the House bill passes the Senate by a 51 vote majority, the pole numbers will improve.
Larry Gregory said...
“We should have the fair tax and we will have plenty of jobs.”
Ten words. Actually, thirteen. Close, though.
“Look at the depression of 1920 and see what Harding and Coolige did and the results.”
I watch Glenn Beck, too, Mr. Gregory. The Roaring 20’s. I’d remind you how the 20’s ended, but, you should know about The Great Depression already.
“And as far as Social Security it should have been privatized many years ago before the government rob the money.”
But, then it wouldn’t be Socialist. What it should have been, years ago, was funded. And the retirement age adjusted as our average life spans have increased since it’s inception.
“I'm all for help those in true need, but we have funded welfare since the early 60s and now we have a 40% dropout rate in school and a 40% out of wedlock birth rate. Personal responsibitity, only help those that are truly mentally or physically challenged not lazy baby making people. You are capable of working and don't you don't eat.”
Lazy baby making people? Seriously? You came close to your REAL objection to social programs with that one, Mr. Gregory.
10% unemployment, and, you don't work you don't eat is your solution? Once those 10%, and their kids, starve, that will solve the unemployment problem. And we didn't even need the 'fair tax'.
Mr. Gregory, this is pointless. I can continue to watch FOX to hear your opinions. No need for any further 'discussion'. Our fellows on this blog are tired of our exchanges. As am I.
Larry Gregory said...
"my apologies. i was on topic and was drawn off subject by what now it appears to be an outside blogger. i've stated my objection to MIC from the very beginning in 2007. that is why i ran for mayor so i could try to stop the cable. if you haven't read my comments earlier, please do so."
It sounds like Mr. Gregory is done talking to "what appears to be an outside blogger". That works for me.
Anonymous said...
"Larry Gregory and B. Holian,
With all due respect, please stay on topic;MIC and its future. If you want to debate your political views, please take them to POTUS or some other open political blog.
There have been some interesting and pertinent discussion of MIC but it is getting lost in your prolific political view posts.
Thanks"
It would be my pleasure. Hopefully, Mr. Gregory agrees.
Anonymous said...
"Mr. Holian ????
You sure do post a lot but I have one question.You have all the right answers but do you really live in Mooresville? Do you own property here?
Apparently you are a renter or maybe someone is letting you live on their property.
I have checked the Iredell County web site and looked under the apprasial card part and NO!!! Holian by any name owns property here in Iredell County. Anyone can check and see this for them selves.Do you even pay any taxes here in Mooresville or Iredell."
Seriously? My bona fides are being questioned by Anonymous? You'll forgive me if I just find that amusing?
I may be anonymous but I do own 4 houses in Mooresville and pay my taxes. Hell you don't even live here so you have no damn right to complain about whats going on here where we ALL LIVE
Anonymous 4:18........thanks for your insight on the issue. I can plainly see you have more insight that I do on the financial side of the outlook. I do think, however, MIC is profitable down the road. I do believe this if managed correctly. I have a friend in cable who has been watching this action, and truthfully, hiring old Adelphia hats and Charter hats is like a disaster. Adelphia went to bankrupcy and Charter is nearly there. I speak freely from his perspective, and have intently watched this unravel while hearing my friend speak very intelligently about the topic. I have an interest of this topic because of my depth of business experience his intense interest in his own profession in Cox Communications. I also have an interest in Mooresville becoming a beating heart for other communities, and being part of that exposure. I'm guessing you are filtered into this chaos within the community as am I. So selling MIC doesn't make sense. What does make sense is resolving the bleeding sore with not only a bandade, but an antibiotic to kill the infection. The infection is BVU. The sore is the management of MIC, and the resolution to all of this is better people in place to take action to goals to make it better and then to sell it at a later date. Hope this makes sense..........thanks for the response.
since when do renters not have a voice? if he lives in MO he pays taxes one way or another you presumptuous jackass
Anonymous said...
"I may be anonymous but I do own 4 houses in Mooresville and pay my taxes. Hell you don't even live here so you have no damn right to complain about whats going on here where we ALL LIVE"
Still just really amusing. And a little off topic, don't you think?
Anonymous said...
"Anonymous 4:18........thanks for your insight on the issue. I can plainly see you have more insight that I do on the financial side of the outlook. I do think, however, MIC is profitable down the road. I do believe this if managed correctly. I have a friend in cable who has been watching this action, and truthfully, hiring old Adelphia hats and Charter hats is like a disaster. Adelphia went to bankrupcy and Charter is nearly there. I speak freely from his perspective, and have intently watched this unravel while hearing my friend speak very intelligently about the topic. I have an interest of this topic because of my depth of business experience his intense interest in his own profession in Cox Communications. I also have an interest in Mooresville becoming a beating heart for other communities, and being part of that exposure. I'm guessing you are filtered into this chaos within the community as am I. So selling MIC doesn't make sense. What does make sense is resolving the bleeding sore with not only a bandade, but an antibiotic to kill the infection. The infection is BVU. The sore is the management of MIC, and the resolution to all of this is better people in place to take action to goals to make it better and then to sell it at a later date. Hope this makes sense..........thanks for the response."
I think you nailed it, the problem is management at MIC. At tonight's Town Board meeting one of the Commissioners asked about last month's financials and the representative from MIC said that he'd been instructed by his Board to begin distributing financials on a quarterly basis. The Commissioners just stared. Hopefully they are planning to give the MIC Board the direction they need.
Anonymous said...
"Larry Gregory and B. Holian,
With all due respect, please stay on topic;MIC and its future. If you want to debate your political views, please take them to POTUS or some other open political blog."
I took your advice. If Mr. Gregory directs anything else my way, I'll post it and my response at http://onpotus.com and try to keep things here on topic.
Now that's rich -- ToM and ToD replaced representatives to serve on MIC -- hand selected those folks -- and they still can't get information from MIC. The problem with MIC is that it's a cluster. If it were not a governmental agency it would already be out of town. So did none of the commissioners verbalize their displeasure? Not a word? What were they doing? Doodling?
Mr. Atkins and Mr. Abraham asked the questions and I think they made it clear that the Board wasn't satisfied with quarterly financials.
No one seemed to be doodling, Pastor. Mayor Montgomery seemed up to the job of managing the meeting. He did consult frequently with the Town Attorney, but, he's new and the meeting seemed to move right along.
I didn't see any animosity between Mr. Herring and the Mayor.
Mac was staring at the Mayor to see whose doodling was better. Carney was trying to lay low to avoid any relationship with the Oates Road stuff. Mitch Abraham was worried about getting the new football season up and running. Miles was busy trying to figure out if he had just been hung out to dry with bad info from Setzer. Houston was probably saying "We have a problem."
Rich -- Rich -- Rich -- I wonder if MIC actually recorded this meeting so we can watch their faces when MIC said, "Sorry, we only give quarterly reports." Way to go new MIC Board - the chosen ones to turn this around because of your expertise. And I'm supposed to have faith in this group to lead us out of a $95.5 million dollar deficit! Right. And I have some land to sell you on Bluefield Road which I promise won't have a $4100 per acre assessment to pay for the bridge to nowhwere. Any takers?
Brian,
They shouldn't be nearly as disappointed as the taxpayers who have been asking for this information for months -- long before Jamie's post.
Miles, when will we get the information? Is it going to take a freedom of information act request to get MIC to get the info into the public's hands? I have some time in the morning to get that over to the corporate office if that will help. That is a serious offer, not a smart aleck response.
How much longer do you anticipate MIC thumbing it's nose at you and the towns? Not good -- not good.
Why did only 2 of the commissioners voice displeasure. Every single one of them should have ripped into MIC -- including Chris Montgomery. I'm sure it's not a surprise that ToM was looking for more information to be provided tonight.
Larry,
I appreciate your offer, but would like to offer up another suggestion. MI-C is very aware of the concerns being expressed by all on this blog. I think in the interest of all it would be beneficial to have a meeting to share information, ask and answered questions, discuss what the plan is moving forward, and hopefully work towards a viable solution. I don't like the situation we are in anymore than you, but sitting on the sidelines doing nothing is not what I was elected to do. It's politically toxic, but the public deserves to know what it going on and engage in the discussion. I will let you know when I am able to get this scheduled and will look to you to help get the word out. Last nights meeting and town board meetings are now airing on ch. 20 nightly at 7pm and are posted on the town's website.
Miles,
I'm glad you're going to get something organized. What is the capacity of town hall?
I can't find last night's meeting on the town's website. Maybe it will be up later on this afternoon.
Is the town using MIC for internet yet?
BH....I wished I could have been at the Town Meeting just to watch the show down. I think that the Commissioners need to request more than a quarterly, and there is no reason why the BOD would/should only report quarterly. That's just not good business. How about requesting a FORECAST of business for the year? Then how about checking that forecast against actuals month to month to keep MIC on task? Good business is to forecast, then HIT the forecast at the minimum.
Miles.......please read above. A forecast is a reasonable request. If MIC cannot hold to forecast then there is a bigger issue inside the minds of management.
Anonymous 4:11PM 3/1/10. My heart goes out to the loss of a close person to you and I commend the Mayor for his help. My only concern to this taking presence over the TOM is that there are other well equiped people who can help in times of crisis. The Mayor is very connected inthe community, and if handled correctly, the Mayor should be able to pass contacts on to others whom can take on personal issues. Multitasking is a gift that is given to those who can handled multiple things at the same time. The Mayor doodling, and being distracted by multiple phone calls is not a good excuse on any level. He could have easily announced the issue at hand, so that others weren't left with a concern of the Mayors attention to matters of the TOM. Harring did the correct thing in constructing a letter to the Mayor.
Harring...well thought out letter to the Mayor. My only concern was that "did it have to go public"? Could this not be addressed privately first, then if nothing changed, warning of a public concern? Maybe this is already the case? I don't know. I do respect you, and glad to have you on the commission for the TOM.
TOM Commissioners.............please please, take ownership of the concerns of MIC and make a reasonable request to it by holding them to task. FORECAST business, then hold MIC to that FORECAST.
Thanks all..........Just call me Madeline
I was fortunate enough to attend the board meeting last night.
The MI-C representatives in their report mentioned an operational review that was conducted by an outside firm. The purpose was to review MI-C's operations and business to identify room for improvement and growth. They noted the firm said they had tremenous room for growth. They also said they were reviewing the rest of the report to see "what applied" to their business.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to ask this question, but knowing many of our Town Commissioners read this blog I would like to suggest that a full copy of that report be given to the MI-C strike force as well as the Town Board for review. It may already be in the works, but if not the Town Board should required MI-C to make it available. It is critical that the town be well informed as to what the outside firm found, both positive and negative.
I very much appreicated both Commissioner Atkins and Commissioner Abraham making it clear that the town needed financial reports much more frequently than once a quarter. While once a quarter is standard in most businesses, given the investment and continuing shortfall MI-C is facing, more frequent reporting is essential.
the contents of that report have already been shared and have been discussed in this thread. tribune, of course, doesn't have anything on it, but the Davidsonnews does.
David probably meant after the second leg of the review is completed. Last night the reps from MIC mentioned that the review isn't complete.
My apologies, I should have clarified. I meant the second phase review should be made available as well.
Gregory and Holian just back off and start your own blog you have just taken over this one with your endless blather. Gregory don't you know when you have been drawn into a hissing contest with a retarded Yankee who has nothing to do but sit at his computer and pester normal people? Now please let his blog return to normal.
Are you saying the paid the consultant to come in and do a full review?
Anonymous said...
"Gregory and Holian just back off and start your own blog you have just taken over this one with your endless blather. Gregory don't you know when you have been drawn into a hissing contest with a retarded Yankee who has nothing to do but sit at his computer and pester normal people? Now please let his blog return to normal."
That's Mr. 'retarded Yankee' Outside Blogger Can't Find Him On The Tax Rolls Commie to you, Boy :)
Be careful or I'll start explaining the differences between The Articles of Confederation and The Constitution to you.
If I type something you haven't heard on FOX your hair might catch fire.
Larry,
That was my understanding, however I may be mistaken. I don't know if the second phase was optional pending what they thought of the first or what. When the MI reps last night talked about two phases I just assumed both were being done.
Maybe someone has a better understanding than I do.
They made it sound as if they were waiting for direction on the second half of the review. That was my take on it.
The Davidsonnews article appeared to indicate that the consultant's job was completed and that the MIC board agreed that a more in-depth and on-site analysis would be the best route, but no action was taken.
Thanks for the clarification. I'd still like to know if ToM is using MIC as their internet service provider yet. As of last year, they were using another company b/c MIC was not capable of handling them. Maybe Miles can answer that one.
At 9:15am Anonymous said...
'Gregory and Holian just back off and start your own blog you have just taken over this one with your endless blather. Gregory don't you know when you have been drawn into a hissing contest with a retarded Yankee who has nothing to do but sit at his computer and pester normal people? Now please let his blog return to normal.'
Shut up moron.
I can answer the question about TOM using internet from MIC. Yes they are. If you need the specifics of what that speed is contact Jeff Brotherton.
Larry........big question for you. Why would BVU, the management company for MIC need consultants to do an in depth analysis, to better manage the operation of MIC. Doesnt' it make sense to pay the consultant to do the full analysis on what kind of management BVU is doing for MIC? I'm stuck in the mud on that concern.
Brian......seems you have a connection with Commissioners. I know them well but you have their ears. FORECASTing MIC revenue and cash flow will help TOM and TOD understand what is really going on. IF MIC forecasts the business, and either underdelivers or overdelivers, then the questions become clearer to the commissioners to ask specific questions like why didn't the revenue hit the forecast you projected, and why is the cashflow off the mark? A Month over Month report, respectively called a MOM report, would show you growth year over year, month over month, and losses and gains. Forecast will show the road map, and each month one can follow the forecast to the actuals. Just good business thinking.
Madeline
Madeline
Madeline said...
"Brian......seems you have a connection with Commissioners. I know them well but you have their ears. FORECASTing MIC revenue and cash flow will help TOM and TOD understand what is really going on..."
Sorry to disappoint, Madeline, but, I just know the commissioners from their name badges and all the back and forth here on the blog. I've only recently become interested in local politics and am just trying to form an opinion with regard to our future with MIC. All of your suggestions sound great, though. Forecasting would certainly give us a better handle, not only on sales, profits and losses, but on management performance.
Last night we were told that MIC picked up 11 new subscribers last month. I don't know if that was a net gain, or whether there was a number for lost subscribers that we just didn't hear about.
I think it's clear from the meetings I've attended that the representatives from MIC are there to put a positive spin on things and none of should be interested in that. We need numbers. In my opinion.
We've talked about the 15,300 customer base. What we haven't talked about is projected growth and what percentage of that is likely to go to MIC. We still have new development. The economy may continue to improve, and with it, MIC's performance.
"big question for you. Why would BVU, the management company for MIC need consultants to do an in depth analysis, to better manage the operation of MIC. Doesnt' it make sense to pay the consultant to do the full analysis on what kind of management BVU is doing for MIC? I'm stuck in the mud on that concern."
I don't think it's BVU asking for the consultant's analysis -- I think it's MIC. I would hope the consultant's role would be to provide feedback on the entire issue: growth potential (not that I want to keep the company), market value, strategic planning, management practices, and the various other questions/concerns which have been posed. I hope, however, they will select another consultant because the one they had simply compared MIC to companies he has owned/operated and not to the entire spectrum of cable operators. I don't know that I'm making sense -- it makes sense in my head, but I'm not sure I'm wording it well enough for others to understand.
Larry.........MIC doesn't do a thing without the directive of BVU. BVU manages MIC. They were hired to do so by the TOM. The management of MIC is to do the strategic planning, management practices, and other things to manage MIC. So back to the question. Why would the BVU need a consultant if they are being paid to do that of consultive work on managing a small cable company? Do you have any idea how much they get financially to do the managing and consulting work? I do, and you would be floored to know the number. So now, it spends more $$ to gain insight? Who is running this show? Believe me Larry when I say this. NO ONE.
Maddy
Brian.........Ok, I get your MO. I do know the commissioners. They are all great people with little information about what's REALLY going on with the total picture of BVU and MIC. ANd guess who is going to end up sucking wind at the end of the day????????????????? TAX Payers. BVU has it's scape goats ready. New GM, consultants to help manage, ect, ect, ect.... This isn't pretty unless someone takes the reins. And I don't mean Santa Claus. There are no 8 tiny reindeer out there to mush. More like Fox's. Dumb like a fox that is.
Maddy
Maddy said...
"Brian.........Ok, I get your MO. I do know the commissioners. They are all great people with little information about what's REALLY going on with the total picture of BVU and MIC. ANd guess who is going to end up sucking wind at the end of the day????????????????? TAX Payers. BVU has it's scape goats ready. New GM, consultants to help manage, ect, ect, ect.... This isn't pretty unless someone takes the reins. And I don't mean Santa Claus. There are no 8 tiny reindeer out there to mush. More like Fox's. Dumb like a fox that is."
Well, we'll all have to work hard to make sure that doesn't happen. I've gone back and read some of the background on this thing. If BVU is the problem, then BVU is the problem. Any information about their contract with the Town?
Was there nothing put in to the original agreement with BVU that holds their feet to the fire? If they spend money like drunken sailors and go over budget are there no consequences? What's the incentive to run this thing efficiently?
Anonymous said...
"Was there nothing put in to the original agreement with BVU that holds their feet to the fire? If they spend money like drunken sailors and go over budget are there no consequences? What's the incentive to run this thing efficiently?"
Doesn't look like it. Posted here in August.
Sunday, August 30, 2009
Town commissioner on MI-Connection: 'There's a storm brewing'
Mooresville and Davidson: Get ready to dig deep – again – for MI-Connection.
"MI-Connection itself is also undergoing an organizational restructuring. And town officials say they have identified a flaw in MI-Connection’s agreement with BVU that needs to be corrected: the agreement is not performance-based. In other words, it does not include a specific mechanism to hold BVU accountable for the performance of the cable system from a sales and marketing standpoint."
well, do tell ... what is that # Madeline?
7 figures.
Maddy
Brian said...
Well, we'll all have to work hard to make sure that doesn't happen. I've gone back and read some of the background on this thing. If BVU is the problem, then BVU is the problem. Any information about their contract with the Town?
I would say, that should be on public records. The 11 new accounts for January seems laughable. Year over year is telling on January 2010. Big deal. 11 new business accounts. That is frankly pathetic to say the least. It should be more like in the 20+ figure.
Reorganizing MIC after nearly 2 1/2 years of spending on a restructure that can't even get to business to business. Criminal and poison.
BVU should be fired. And reorganizing with people who do not come from Adelphia or Charter background. Talk about bankrupcy and near to bankrupcy.
Have a pleasant day all........Maddy
vague -- 7 figures -- be specific if you have the information -- quit playing games -- say it specifically
specifically a cool mil. sorry for vagueness on my part. could be more. no games here. and i just wonder why bvu needs to hire (spend more of the tax payers money) a consultant to do what "BVU" is hired to do. Reorging should have taken place well before now. what is really going on in that place called MIC? I have heard it is reckless chaos, driven by bvu.
My biggest guess is that BVU made some really bad decisions from the start by hiring the wrong people to do the job at hand. Again, Charter and Adelphia hats. What do adelphia or charter people know about money? except to spend it with no accountability.
Maddy
If the business plan says they need to grow 5% a year....my simple caveman math says they need 750 new subscribers a year......or 62.5 a month...
So.....will there be a parade down Broad Street to celebrate the 11 new customers from January....and is it a net gain of 11 or did they lose some too?
Parade? Too funny.
You pose a strong statement about gain and lost business. Frankly in all business there is lost business. And it would be a strong question to pose to whomever reporting the 11 gain, what the loss of business was.
maddy
Maddy,
If you write spy thrillers for a living I love the "millions" tease......but since we're talking about money that we could all be stuck paying for....can you share any details?
This is like when the electrician comes to your house and says "Welllll...that doesn't look good".
Anon, I wrote a cool mil. Meaning single. M-Tribune front page today states the approval of another $400k loan to MIC. I wonder if MIC is paying for the consultant fees or would that fee come outta the BVU mil?
What else do you want to know?
Maddy
Is the "cool mil" the anticipated shortcoming in budget?
I interpreted the Tribune article as MIC was paying to have someone take a deeper look at their business practices...by doing this isn't it an admission that they are, at best, unsure of what is going on?
Here is the link to the operating agreement:
http://www.ci.davidson.nc.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=646
There are penalties for early termination and sale of the system.
What are the penalties for BVU for the anticipated budget miss? When I have more time, I will read the document, and in the real world, contracts are made to be broken if the party under contract isn't fulfilling it's part of the bargon. I would say a deeper look at MIC business practice is a direct reflection of the poor management by BVU. The uncertianty of what's going on is a failure to take ownership of the project, from my view on the subject.
The TOM hired BVU. So the TOM is the ultimate boss and should demand answers to the 2010 year end, which fiscally is in June of 2010. And I mean demand it immediately with a specific deadline.
BVU is mismanaging the TOM asset. TOM has the right to KNOW what those assets look like. And that means commissioners need to stand up to BVU for the people of Mooresville, and get answers to the unknown. BVU does not represent the people of TOM. TOM represents the people, who own the franchise.
For the TOM to roll over and play dead to direct questions to MIC is a slap in the face to the people they represent. Demanding revenue numbers isn't unreasonable for the owners of the franchise to request.
And if MIC/BVU failed to deliver the information requested, someone needs to be knocking hard on some doors, and taking names and numbers of the people not responding.
Maddy
maddy
thanks for the link -- we we know if this is the actual ratified agreement?
Interesting to note that the consultant's findings will provide MIC with no legal basis to alter anything related to the contract or work performance of BVU -- so why waste the money?
Seems like a sweet deal for BVU -- they have us locked in for 5 years and they retain an automatic renewal option. If ToM and ToD decide to not renew, we pay them 1.5 million for the privilege of having screwed us royally.
I think we should see the business plan submitted to BVU and the performance standards to which they are being held. That should be public information.
Despite all that -- sell the damn thing and get it off our backs so we don't lose our essential services: "Sorry, we would be happy to respond to your 911 call, but we had to fire police/fire in order to pay for your cable service."
OK....I'm not an accountant or a lawyer....but this little "penalty for early withdrawal" hit me between the eyes when I scanned through this..
"Should MI sell the System during this contract’s term, MI will sell the System subject to the condition that either the purchasers will continue to use BVU to manage the System on terms at least as favorable as in this contract or one of the following provisions will apply. If the sale is concluded during the first three years of this contract, MI shall pay to BVU a buy-out amount equal to the full amount of the management fee payable for the remainder of the three year term, plus $1,500,000.00, plus an amount equal to the difference between the total of the monthly payments of management fee made during said three years and $450,000.00 per annum for each of said three years."
The "management fee" that we would be stuck paying would be $27,432.89 per month until the 3 year mark...plus the last penalty, which my legalese translation interprets that as another few hundred thousand.
So....we could be talking MILLIONS in penalties. Just when you thought we were screwed you find out we're COMPLETELY damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Thanks for the link anon....for some reason I don't feel so good now.
Jim, I'm not an lawyer or and accountant either, but getting back to contracts can be broken in the event that the person who contracts for the business, isn't meeting it's obligation to the owners.
Am I off my rocker?
Maddy
OR...........We, the citizens, apply pressure to the TOM, to apply pressure on BVU, to start meeting the expectation that the TOM and TOD are requesting and expect. Maybe even, dedicate someone to apply this pressure on a daily basis on behalf of the towns. Making BVU (the people at BVU and not MIC) accountable for the job they are supposed to be doing in properly managing the poorly run, MIC. Hold their feet to the fire in an unpleasant way. Unpleasant always forces people to perform. And if it does not perform, perhaps the TOM and TOD take this to a judge to decide if the contract is binding.
Just throwing stuff out there for us to think about. There is obviously people (anonymous or not) who really want some action one way or another.
BVU might be under contract, however, they do report to someone. This is not grey to me. This is black and white. Whomever is responsible for the contract should be held responsible to the outcome.
NC is an at will employer state. Terminating someone for performance or anything else for a business decision is part of the law of the state of NC. Maybe BVU can collect unemployment?
maddy
Good luck on simply breaking the contract. My guess is the perfmance measures are equally as kind to BVU as the management fee and penalties.
I wonder if the real pressure might be the citizens bombarding BVU's customer service and corporate offices with our concerns and our complaints. Why allow the ToM, ToD, and MIC Board continue to manage it when it's fairly obvious they can't? The real power is in the hands of the people -- but that would require a huge commitment and effort to get the voice of the community behind this.
Miles, can you provide some insight into the performance measures and the business plan?
As one of the citizens who voiced my opinion about this fiasco before it happened, I've read a lot about it...maybe too much!
While we're asking Miles for answers.....
I remember reading that the business plan gets harder as it goes along. I remember that there was an expectation of at least 5% growth....and I thought more. At what point does the "hill get steep"?
Also...at what point can we hold BVU responsible for their part in running the business? Seems like monthly updates...and what their plan is to "right the ship" are the least they could do...
And....finally....at what point can we expect layoffs or cutbacks in essential services to pay for this "Money Pit"? I know it's already hit Davidson but, while we may be a larger town, sooner or later the bill comes due.
Jim
Jim and Larry,
My (0ur) concern is on the pulse of the issues. Timeline is as follows"
1) 12/17/07 MIC takes over from TW
2). Rebuild is supposed to be completed by 4/08.
3) Revenues are down from expectations.
I believe we need a report from between residential and commercial. Commercial will be bleak as it was not part of the initial rebuild. Residential.............whatever. I hate to say it but it's not the reason for the rebuild. AND it was not the focus in the rebuild so..............here we are.
maddy
Jim, the vote to infuse $400K into MIC from the ToM budget will impact our essential services becuase the $400K will come through decreases throughout the ToM operating budget.
Buying cable companies? Bad.
Buying golf courses? Bad.
Sell them both right now. Don't matter how much money we lose. Larry Gregory is right. If we'd elected him Mayor he would already have sold those things and we'd just be paying off the debt, not raising property taxes or losing services to pay more debt.
Larry Gregory for Mayor!!!!!!!!!!
Chris Montgomery is as good as LG. Chris can sell the golf course and MIC tomorrow. Do it, Chris.
That's why we elected you!!!!!!!!!!
Maddy,
I think the fact that they were surprised that the system was in very bad shape was indicative of the fact that perhaps something was missed in the due diligence. I own a tv and a computer and could've filled them in. When the rebuild took much longer than they expected we should have known they were in over their heads.
Larry,
I thought the $400K was coming out of a "rainy day fund" so there's no impact on day to day services....until you need the rainy day fund.
Regarding the golf course.....how much is it worth?
I would hope the $400K was coming out of the "rainy day fund" but I'm not really totally sure. I guess I might have been reading Davidson's situation into ToMs.
However, it appears clear based on Mile's comments that the budget is going to be negatively impacted -- which means day-to-day will be impacted.
That's a great question about the golf course. I'm a golfer (when I get the chance), but I don't think the town needs to own that either. And I hope the commissioners don't put that $10 million into the renovations they were contemplating.
In fairness to "Maddy" the system upgrade was not to be started until April 2008 and completed in early 2009. Along with the others who have followed this from the beginning I am sure that was the deadline given all along. The cable lines were in bad shape and we're talking several months of work to install miles of fiber to support the network-not 4.
An important part of the timeline fails to mention the 'extra' customers that were added in by Time Warner after the towns had applied for the first loan. Granted, the extra customers generated more (needed) revenue for M-I; but forced the 2nd loan as the original $$$ were used to 'buy' those customers.
Having said/typed that-I am still finding it hard to believe that everyone with TOM/TOD/MIC/BVU were so 'surprised' how bad the system was in Dec 07. 1st clue would be to look at the % of customers vs. the industry standard. They had months to perform due dilliigence and talk to the actual 'Cable Guys' who had been with Adelphia and stayed through the Time Warner transition and learn what they needed to know. I tend to think the towns knew-just had a point to prove that they knew better.
Unfortunately logic and public opinion were thrown out the window for the sake of this "Cash Cow". If the towns had just let Time Warner run the show, they would at least have some positive revenue coming from the Franchise Sales Tax! Instead, they (WE) are writing checks-something that was promised would never happen.
**SIGH**
Anon 1:13pm, that's exactly what should have happened. The problem is that we had/have some folks on our board who were way too smart for our own good. Now a couple of them are gone and the rest, with the exception of Miles Atkins, are absolutely clueless.
Atkins isn't the Grand Poobah, though. He's got five other Commissioners and Mayor Doodlebug to work with to try and pull our collective walnuts out of the fire before we end up raising property taxes to prevent a default, raising cable rates and driving away MIC's customers, or getting information from someone to prove this situation isn't as bad as we're all guessing, before this turns into one big messy Tea Party outside Town Hall.
Do we have 1 manager on our board? Anyone who can read P&L's and tell what they're looking at? All I hear when I go to the meetings is Staff this and Staff that. How many of our Staff were involved in the Cops for Kids fiasco?
Things are ugly downtown.
As I understand it, we're on the hook for the whole $92.5 million. Davidson could drop out and they'd ruin their credit rating but we'd still be left to come up with the payments on the bonds....since we borrowed it in the first place.
Can anyone dispute that? Miles?
Anon 1:13PM.......that typo was a cocktail hour typo, of 4/08. But thanks for the clarification about the timeline.
Anon 2:23PM.....Ya know, I really have to say that the commissioners are fairly intelligent people. Some are firecrackers, and others more mild. As far as management experience on the board, perhaps Henning and Atkins. We have a construction guy, a title man, ect ect. No geniuses, however, they are commissioners because they ran for the office. Not too many want that position. Mayor Doodlebug is really a funny consideration. LMAO on that one.
P&L are challenging, but can be learned if given the paper to read. MIC/BVU won't honor that information. Not for public record. Yeap, some things are for the record (11 new buisiness accounts) and other things like p&l's are not for the public. That's an OM in my book. The TOM owns MIC but can't see the P&L's. Go figure.
Maddy
I think the State might have an issue with anything related to MIC not being a matter of public record. We mightashoulda thought that through when we were buying it.
Short of employee personel files, I think we can look at anything we want to. MIC and BVU might not like it, but, I don't think they can refuse. We have a Town Attorney.....or something like a Town Attorney.
Doodlebug, Doodlebug where are you?
You, with your Doodlebug EYES
Doodlebug, Doodlebug we elected you,
So MIC would stop telling LIES
Doodlebug? Don't leave Miles alone here. Find out something, anything and talk to us. Even if it's just where your office is located? Then we'll know we voted for the right cat, anyway.
You're making me miss Bill T.
He's at Chik Fil-a 2nite!!!
Heck with Chris. We need Larry Gregory. At least he'd take our minds off all this with one of his rants about baby making people and how taxes are just for hiring illegals to run the fire department. If he was Mayor he'd sell everything and run the baby makers and Dems out of Town. That'd be exciting.
This is depressing.
Anonymous said...
"He's at Chik Fil-a 2nite!!!"
Doddlebug or Mr. T? They both deserve a box of nuggets. Larry Gregory should go meet them and asplain how to run the gubmint to somebody. Else.
If they'd listened to Larry Gregory we wouldn't be in this fix. You don't gotta be able to tell the difference between no and know, think for yourself, or string too of those fancy city words together to be rite. I'd rather have a Mayor I can trust to run off them baby makers than somebody strange as the dickens.
And there is something wrong with folks who play golf and watch cable TV. Whenever the Klub meets we just talk about what's wrong with America, we don't watch TV.
Miles -- are you in hiding? Lots of questions needing answers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would help me having to picket town hall again.
Larry and All,
There are way too many questions and not enough answer. Many on this blog who have been following MIC have experience or expertise that could be of tremendous value in helping evaluate where we are with MIC and how we move forward as a community with this enterprise. Brian is one such person I met last night. In his line of work they do a Current Environment Assessment which is designed to get the full lay of the land on where they are currently. From there they're able to proceed forward on solutions. I agree with him that the same process would be beneficial to go through with MIC. As he stated it's crucial to getting the end to end view. This process will assist us in organizing and presenting the information to address all the questions that are being asked.
As an extension of the MIC strike team (Atkins, Carney, Herring) I have asked Brian to serve on a citizens advisory panel that is being formed to engage the citizens of our community to work with us on a solution. In addition this panel will help in closing the information gap that currently exist. If there are others who have some expertise or who can add value to this process of working towards a solution please do not hesitate to contact me. I can be reached at 980-722-1857 or matkins@ci.mooresville.nc.us.
lol...i guess that answers the question about brian's citizenship
can we get a detailed description of the role of the strike force?
btw ... There are way too many questions and not enough answer.... fair enough
Larry Green said...
"lol...i guess that answers the question about brian's citizenship"
Good Morning, Pastor Green
Brian Holian is just a pen name that I use for a political blog. I am a loyal resident of Mooresville, a tax payer, and a subscriber to MIC.
Brian, Thanks for meeting with Miles. I appreciate that seriousness of giving input. I too will meet with Miles.,
Larry............why do you need details of a task force? There is a special invite to those who want to be part of something and find solutions. I encourage you to call Miles or email him.
Enough talk. Time for action.
Mr. Atkins.......thanks for taking this on. Your obvious care to this matter is exceptional to TOM.
M
Well first, it's a "strike team" not a task force, which is interesting in and of itself. Secondly, these folks are working on issues impacting the general public. Put the details on the ToM website along with all the other ToM committees/boards.
Why NOT have the information?
LG......i guess your request is reasonable of a description of the strike team. generally the strike team or task force get specific of goals and objectives for it while they meet. thought you might want to be part of forming that description.
my bad.
LG, I believe Miles stated he wants to form a Citizens Advisory Committee specifically for the purpose of getting information out the general public.
All government moves at the snails pace. But I think Miles is working for us on this.
CAC sounds like a propoganda machine -- isn't that the job of newspapers? to get information out to the general public?
And where is that ethics committee? Been waiting on that for a LONG time.
this ain't about Miles. this is about inept leadership on the entire board. if miles wants a pat on the back then he better step up and get some things done.
strike force my butt -- it's just another way to spin MIC into something it's not. a real strike force would get in, kick butt, and get out -- not get in, get screwed, and then get screwed some more.
4:10....
Believe me, I've been frustrated by MIC for over 3 years now. The arrogance of the previous board is what got us in to this mess.
I'm willing to give the current board a chance to fix it....but quite frankly, buying Power Ball tickets seems to be as viable a solution as many of the others I've heard.
Selling it immediately and eating the costs will cause the town to have to raise taxes and cut services drastically.
Keeping it while it sinks further in to the abyss seems equally crazy.....but it's an enormous mess.
If Miles wants to form a committee to try and spearhead a strategy I wish him well....he can't really make the mess worse.
you mean the arrogance of Carney and Herring -- aren't they on this strike force thing? Yea -- that's not going to go so well
Yeah. See, that's a problem. It's a Representative Democracy type thing. We get to vote for them. Then they represent us. Which means that we don't get to vote on every decision that is made. That would make this a Democracy.
You have 100 citizens? Democracy is easy. You bulk it up past that and true Democracy is still possible. Just real cumbersome. So, we rely on our Representatives, like Carney and Herring, to make the best decisions they can.
We hope, or trust, that they will have the benefit of accurate and abundant information that we might not have access to, or the time or the inclination to process, and do what's right. Sometimes for those in the areas they represent. Sometimes for the Town as a whole.
Polls and blogs don't tell them what we want. They tell them what some of us want, those polled, and what some of us, those of us who post, say.
Filling up the room that the board meets in is the same thing. The people who showed up aren't all of the people.
Our Representatives have to make the decisions. They can't hear all of us, or ask each of us our permission before deciding to buy a cable company. They should, however, be expected to explain their decisions, their actions, their votes to those of us who elected them, even to those who voted for the other guy.
Why did Carney vote for the purchase of MIC? Why did Herring? Arrogance? Were they misinformed? Pressure from.......? Why?
because they are idiots? the public made their opinion known and they ignored it
The public? Every citizen? Not really. They ignored those who objected, certainly. That's beyond dispute. But, 'the public' didn't express the opinion of the public until the next election.
What percentage of 'the public' made their opinion known at the election following the purchase of MIC?
Which Commissioners 'ran' unopposed.
Clearly, 'the public' didn't care.
6:15.....
"Our Representatives have to make the decisions. They can't hear all of us, or ask each of us our permission before deciding to buy a cable company. They should, however, be expected to explain their decisions, their actions, their votes to those of us who elected them, even to those who voted for the other guy."
While they can't hear ALL of us, they should have heard the crowds that were present at Town Hall...it wasn't like the crowd was split...the public was completely against it.
So..."why"??....they listened to Rader and Thunberg instead of the people who put them in office.
and these 2 guys, Jim, are on this "strike force" -- who are they going to listen to now?
Anonymous said...
"and these 2 guys, Jim, are on this "strike force" -- who are they going to listen to now?"
Hopefully, to the Citizens Advisory Panel.
The MIC Citizens Advisory Panel should be tasked with clearly answering the following questions, and communicating the answers, with supporting documentation, to the citizens of Mooresville, as well as to our Board of Commissioners and the Mayor:
1. If MIC is sold in order to satisfy citizens calling for limited government, what are the costs associated?
2. What are the potential costs forecasted over all, to both Mooresville and Davidson, and then specifically to the Town of Mooresville, for holding on to MIC and supporting the growth and development of that asset? There should be a 10 year projection prepared. The actual value of the asset should be determined. And the value of that asset, factoring in the potential growth of the customer base calculated to support forecasted real estate development with a conservative estimate of MIC's share of that market, over that same 10 year period should be prepared, as well, in order to determine what the asset will be worth at the end of that 10 year period. A Risk Analysis, weighing each of the factors used in the preparation of the final report should be included, so that the potential variations in the final results can be measured.
If properly supported by the Board of Commissioners, the Mayor and Staff, and provided with all necessary access and documents by BUV and MIC (with legally binding non-disclosure agreements, as require, in place), then the MIC Citizens Advisory Panel should be able to present the Town with the information necessary to decide whether the asset should be held and supported until it can be sold for a profit or for minimal losses, or sold immediately.
If the recommendation is to sell the asset immediately then the Citizens Advisory Panel should be prepared to provide a plan for how any debt is to be distributed and how the Town will pay that debt through the budget process.
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