Something isn't adding up with MI-Connection.
After reading the Mooresville Tribune's recent article on the town commissioners' planning retreat - http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/ - I was left with the impression that town officials may know more than they're letting on.
And that wouldn't be much of a surprise. After guaranteeing public money for MI-Connection, town officials quickly grew uneasy with public requests about the communication system's financial health and marketing/sales plans. While we own the system, we've been told that some information can't be shared with us. Why? Because it could end up in the hands of our competitors, which could prove detrimental to the success of our $92.5 million (so far) communications system.
The little that is being shared with the public is important. But what's typically more important is what is not being said. Such as this: a Feb. 2 letter from the N.C. Department of State Treasurer to Evan Webster, former Davidson town commissioner and chairman of the MI-Connection board of directors. The letter, in essence, states that the Local Government Commission, in its audit of MI-Connection's FY 09 financial statements, found that the system "has serious financial problems which the System's governing board must address immediately." To read the full letter, click on each document to enlarge:
Perhaps it's information like this that is causing our town board to seem a little off-kilter recently. The topic of MI-Connection apparently led to an exchange between Commissioner Miles Atkins and Mayor Chris Montgomery at the board's recent planning retreat, where Atkins - a member of the MI-Connection Strike Team - agreed to make a presentation about MI-Connection. (http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/)
But that exchange, taken in context, appears to be a small piece of a much larger picture. That "context" may have been provided in a letter sent by Commissioner Mac Herring to Montgomery earlier this week. In the letter, Herring confronts the mayor about his "lack of leadership."
Referring to the planning retreat in particular, Herring writes: "During the entire 2 day session you only made 1 comment, and that was a personal attack on Commissioner Atkin's [sic] presentation of where we are with MI-Connection. You contributed NOTHING to any other conversation. You were frequently doodling or texting. At least twice an hour you would get up and leave for 10-15 minutes, sometimes for 30 or more. Though present, you were absent.
"For you to sit in our Strategic workshop and not engage in the conversations, offer your opinion, ask questions and help provide direction for out Town's staff is inexcusable...especially as your attention was elsewhere and and you were frequently elsewhere," Herring continued. "It almost seems as if you are choosing to abandon the duties and responsibilities of the position to which you were elected."
To read Herring's letter in its entirety, click on the documents below:
After reading the Mooresville Tribune's recent article on the town commissioners' planning retreat - http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/ - I was left with the impression that town officials may know more than they're letting on.
And that wouldn't be much of a surprise. After guaranteeing public money for MI-Connection, town officials quickly grew uneasy with public requests about the communication system's financial health and marketing/sales plans. While we own the system, we've been told that some information can't be shared with us. Why? Because it could end up in the hands of our competitors, which could prove detrimental to the success of our $92.5 million (so far) communications system.
The little that is being shared with the public is important. But what's typically more important is what is not being said. Such as this: a Feb. 2 letter from the N.C. Department of State Treasurer to Evan Webster, former Davidson town commissioner and chairman of the MI-Connection board of directors. The letter, in essence, states that the Local Government Commission, in its audit of MI-Connection's FY 09 financial statements, found that the system "has serious financial problems which the System's governing board must address immediately." To read the full letter, click on each document to enlarge:
Perhaps it's information like this that is causing our town board to seem a little off-kilter recently. The topic of MI-Connection apparently led to an exchange between Commissioner Miles Atkins and Mayor Chris Montgomery at the board's recent planning retreat, where Atkins - a member of the MI-Connection Strike Team - agreed to make a presentation about MI-Connection. (http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/feb/19/cable-issue-hot-one-retreat/news-local/)
But that exchange, taken in context, appears to be a small piece of a much larger picture. That "context" may have been provided in a letter sent by Commissioner Mac Herring to Montgomery earlier this week. In the letter, Herring confronts the mayor about his "lack of leadership."
Referring to the planning retreat in particular, Herring writes: "During the entire 2 day session you only made 1 comment, and that was a personal attack on Commissioner Atkin's [sic] presentation of where we are with MI-Connection. You contributed NOTHING to any other conversation. You were frequently doodling or texting. At least twice an hour you would get up and leave for 10-15 minutes, sometimes for 30 or more. Though present, you were absent.
"For you to sit in our Strategic workshop and not engage in the conversations, offer your opinion, ask questions and help provide direction for out Town's staff is inexcusable...especially as your attention was elsewhere and and you were frequently elsewhere," Herring continued. "It almost seems as if you are choosing to abandon the duties and responsibilities of the position to which you were elected."
To read Herring's letter in its entirety, click on the documents below:
Posts
593 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 593 Newer› Newest»Anon's gone wild. Our commissioners are not idiots. Let's stop throwing mud at people. It's just non-productive. The CAP (Citizens Advisory Panel) is a start for the commissioners to gain more understanding, and perhaps Anon's to get involved and find clarity then find solutions. Radar and Thunberg are very much involved in what the NC government can do for the western side of the state of NC. Because, it's the Eastern side of the state that gets more of the money for roads, schooling, ect... Now, back to MIC/BVU. This project can be a financial gain for our community. Technically, it's a sound revenue stream. The problem is the mismanagement within. A CAP makes sense to uncover the damages made, and find solutions to move this money/revenue stream into the correct direction.
Working together is the only way to resolve things. Name calling isn't productive.
There are certian Anon's whom want to make a difference. If there are Anon's who don't want to make a difference, and just want to name call, and throw mud, then find yourself somewhere else to grip.
M
BRAVO, Anon, 2:06 AM. I was sound asleep at that time, but good thinking........
M
Our Commissioners and our Town Manager, and our Assistant Town Manager, and our Town Attorney are not idiots. However, with the exception of the Mayor, and Rhett Dusenbury, every one of them should be a subject matter expert with regard to MIC.
They are just now discovering what's in the contract with BVU? They are being told by MIC when they are going to be receiving financials?
They aren't bad people, idiots, corrupt, but, they are negligent and they are totally incapable of running this town. We can't fire the Commissioners who voted for MIC and haven't been unseated by ballot, but, we can fire the Town Manager, Assistant Town Manager, and our esteemed Town Attorney first thing Monday morning.
Or at least start petitioning our Board of Commissioners and our Mayor to take that action.
M -- people have a right to express their opinions regardless of how you or I perceive their comments. It's not for you or me to tell them to be quiet simply because we don't like them voicing their opinions about the mental capacities of the town board.
CAC sounds interesting, but I wonder if, again, we're putting the cart before the horse. There is no description of what CAC will do, nor has the establishment been approved. What has been suggested here seems to be more in-line with the work of this "strike force" which has been put in place. Again, we have no description of that group either other than to know the 3 commissioners who are in it. We know NOTHING about the role/responsibilities of this "strike force." Sorry, I can't trust something which is so vauge and secret. Put out all the facts about the team, who is eligible to serve or is it by invitation only, and the descriptions. That's why we have a ToM website.
Ultimately, whether the CAC or "strike force" actually receive information they will have no decision making authority. They can make recommendations, which then have to be backed up by the elected folks. Part of me thinks the CAC and "strike force" is a way for the elected folks to try and divert the blame to others: "Hey, we had these committees and they decided this is the best solution." I guess I'm just too cynical.
LG, if we don't tell someone not to call people names, what good are we? Some obviously don't understand that we can disagree without forgeting how to be civil.
Since their parents didn't teach them not to hide behind the Anonymous nature of their posts to insult people, rather than simply express their ideas and differing view points, we can at least tell them that they add nothing but noise to the discussion and suggest they take their eggs and rotten tomatoes to a Tea Party.
The grown ups, LG, are talking here :)
yea, superimpose your moralistic, civility on the rest of us emotionally unstable people -- I believe that can be referred to as pompous, with the synonyms being smug, conceited, and pretentious. In my house, we refer to people like that as "pompous ass". Who are you to dictate civility? If someone wants to call someone an idiot/moron/ass/(insert your favorite word), it's called freedom of speech.
This, my friend, is NOT a tea party. This is a fight to keep our town from going further into the craphole which they've gotten us into. So you go ahead and stand there smiling -- the rest of us will say what we think and not give a damn about your sensitivity to adult language.
I find it ironic that you hide behind your own anonymity while chastising those of us who say what we want, when we want. So get back to your little tea party and sit there trying to look pretty. The rest of us will deal with the real issues and the fight.
You are the epitomy of a stupid southerner! Bless your heart.
"LG, if we don't tell someone not to call people names, what good are we? Some obviously don't understand that we can disagree without forgeting how to be civil."
So your job is to maintain civility? Who made you god (intentionally left lower case)? It's not your place to dictacte civility. All you're going to do is cause more crap with your holier than thou attitude.
LG and other Anon's........ come on now. It is anyones right to have freedom of speech. Speak all day long with whatever floats your boat. But name calling? Didn't your mama and your papa teach you respect and kindness while giving your point of view? This mud slig talk is just like a Maury Show. Tasteless and immature. So let's try and have some fun here with maturity and focus. Trash talk is all that that is. Trash. I for one am an intelligent, poised, and degreed individual who would rather chat it up with people with cooth about the truth.
I'm not your mother, I'm just your sister from another mister. Let's leave the trash talk at the door, and be nice.............
M
LG, I would say yes, you are far to cynical. We don't know anything about the CAC because my impression is it hasn't started. Miles said he wants to get it going I believe. So it seems to me it's very recent. Hard to know everything you asked when the process hasn't gotten off the ground.
Wow.....lots of name calling and bickering.
Folks....this town has a mess on it's hands. If you own property, you're taxes WILL BE going up.
All of the citizens of this town ARE going to see a cutback in services...be it fewer police officers, fewer parks and rec programs, cutbacks in library hours.....we're gonna have to pay for this debacle some how.
So...we can let our frustrations with where we are lead us to childish bickering or we can try and put our heads together and determine a way out of this....as frustrated as I am with politicians that didn't hear the loud screams of the town...it's time to find solutions.
Jim
M -- I'm just saying -- maybe people didn't have a mama and daddy to train them up right -- i'm just glad to have them engaged in the process, regardless of how well they might fit in at a tea party.
Yes, I am cynical. We were told they were going to establish an Ethics Committee sometime back, and that hasn't gotten anywhere. And now we have this "strike force" which came out of nowhere and has not been defined for the general public. And now we're gonna have this other thing? Heck, I'd be happy with the first thing :-) Maybe I can share some of my ADD meds with the commissioners so they can FOCUS on one thing at a time -- just offering!
Maybe the cutbacks will result in the layoff of our assistant town manager. now there's an easy way to cut $100k per year. How's that for putting our heads together and finding solution. I'll let you know if I can think of anything else.
BTW, if you think this thread is heated -- you better not go over to the thread about the sheriff. That conversation even makes me go "ouch". But, I think the information would be good for those of you who may be looking for information about who to vote for as sheriff for Iredell County.
Anonymous Idiot #2 said...
"So your job is to maintain civility? Who made you god (intentionally left lower case)? It's not your place to dictacte civility. All you're going to do is cause more crap with your holier than thou attitude."
No. But, like you and the moron below, I have the right of free speech. I pointed out to a local Pastor that his defense of name calling isn't productive. I'll mention now that it also isn't particularly Christian.
It's not your place to tell me that I can't point out that name calling is counter productive and stupid. I'm right.
The person doing the name calling was the one stirring up crap. We're allowed to tell morons to shut up. Just like they are allowed to call people idiots.
Anonymous Idiot #1 said...
"yea, superimpose your moralistic, civility on the rest of us emotionally unstable people"
Aligator's mouth and a sparrow's balls :)
You do have the freedom to call someone an idiot. It defines you. Take your freedom of speech to the next Board meeting. Tell everyone your name. Then call Carney and Herring idiots. Then we'll know who you are, and I'll come over introduce myself. And we'll see whether my calling you a moron advances our discussion. Hopefully, it won't make you cry.
I'm not your friend, this blog, with posts like yours, sounds like a Tea Party, lots of noise, and adults behaving like children, and I'm from New Jersey. Schmuck.
Jim said...
"Wow.....lots of name calling and bickering.
Folks....this town has a mess on it's hands. If you own property, you're taxes WILL BE going up.
All of the citizens of this town ARE going to see a cutback in services...be it fewer police officers, fewer parks and rec programs, cutbacks in library hours.....we're gonna have to pay for this debacle some how.
So...we can let our frustrations with where we are lead us to childish bickering or we can try and put our heads together and determine a way out of this....as frustrated as I am with politicians that didn't hear the loud screams of the town...it's time to find solutions.
Jim"
Well said. Unfortunately, what we're seeing here is what we're seeing all over the country. People with dogma and no ideas expressing anger and frustration by acting like children and defending their behavior with the 1st Amendment.
It might be fun to call Commissioners idiots, but, that isn't going to solve any of our problems.
Just because we can do something, or hide behind our keyboards and type something, doesn't mean we should.
Larry Green said...
"M -- I'm just saying -- maybe people didn't have a mama and daddy to train them up right -- i'm just glad to have them engaged in the process, regardless of how well they might fit in at a tea party."
Engaged in the process? Calling Commissioners idiots because they voted to buy MIC, and you think that was a mistake. What if they called you an idiot for believing in Santa Jesus, Larry? Or a hypocrite for taking money to teach people to be Christians while encouraging people to act like fools while they do your political dirty work?
Keep up the good work.
"Yes, I am cynical. We were told they were going to establish an Ethics Committee sometime back, and that hasn't gotten anywhere. And now we have this "strike force" which came out of nowhere and has not been defined for the general public. And now we're gonna have this other thing? Heck, I'd be happy with the first thing :-) Maybe I can share some of my ADD meds with the commissioners so they can FOCUS on one thing at a time -- just offering!"
Perhaps should up your meds.
I don't need anyone's permission to say what I want to say, how I want to say it. The idiots who got us into this crap are still on board and are now on this "strike force." maybe if you folks paid as much attention to their activities as you do to my calling them an idiot or your perception of whether or not Mr. Green is condoning my comments you'd have a freaking clue.
I have said all this pubicly and said it directly to the faces of those two officials. What have you done little ms. manners? Nothing but sit there at your dainty little tea party and drinking mint julips. piss off.
Anonymous Cowardly Idiot #1 said...
"I don't need anyone's permission to say what I want to say, how I want to say it. I have said all this pubicly and said it directly to the faces of those two officials."
Sure you have, Doris :)
You don't need anyone's permission to type stupid things. But, if you weren't a coward and a liar your name would be on your post. Tea Baggers are nice and brave when they are 100 deep. Just like any mob.
Why defend your freedom to call elected officials names? No one has said your punk ass can't do it. Several people have suggested that you should not do it. And I've called you a moron and said that what you're doing is stupid.
America. Where morons can say what they want without fear (especially when they hide behind a keyboard, or behind old ladies at Tea Parties), and anyone else can look at them and laugh.
Sorry your panties are in a bunch. That always happens to you girls when someone reminds you that other people have freedom of speech, too.
Now, now children.
At the risk of taking us in the direction of the topic, if the Board creates a Citizen Advisory Panel to help explain where we stand with MIC, does anyone have specific questions they would like addressed?
Has anyone contacted Commissioner Atkins to discuss the CAP?
There has to be some accountability for those that led us down this path (beyond the November election results). Economy or no economy, somebody 'missed' big time-was it:
Rader Math
The consultants that performed the due dilligence and signed off on the business plan
BVU
The Meck County official doubling as the town's Cable Advisor and her vendetta against Time Warner?
http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2005/10/24/story2.html?from_rss=1
In order for us to look forward we need to understand what the Mooresville "Gang of 4" and Davidson officials were being fed to thumb their noses at public opinion and get us into this mess.
I've been following this since the beginning and in backtracking came across the following:
http://davidsonnews.net/2007/11/02/what-if-cable-system-loses-money/
Not even 2 1/2 years later and we are finding out the answers the hard way.
11:49....
You ask some good questions. It seems like it may have been a combination of all of the above.
Frank Rader described this as a "can't miss" proposal from the very beginning. He convinced the mayor, Carney and Herring to ignore all those citizens at the meetings. Oddly, Rader's newsletter hasn't mentioned anything about this little financial mess.
The consultants that wrote the business plan had "happy glasses". They were sure the town was going to embrace this wonderful new cable system like a soldier just home from the war. Did they think the 40-50 people who spoke against this thing were gonna jump at the chance to buy something they didn't want? Did they really expect unprecedented economic growth to continue forever?
The agreement between BVU and the towns is amazing. It seems like BVU is completely protected but it doesn't hold their feet to the fire if they miss any goals.
Brian....
The question I would like to ask the CAP is....if we continue crawling out of this recession at a snail's pace and the subscriber growth remains virtually flat, what's the impact for the taxpayers this year?
Herring was at Miles house this afternoon -- maybe there were getting this CAP thing all sorted out along with their little "strike force"
That's a little stalkerish :)
You know what would be really simple? Who voted for it? Carney and Herring, right? Only ones left. Who campaigned against it? Mayor Doodlebug and Rhett Dusenbury.
By my count, that's four. Put together a petition and then go down to Town Hall and present the board with a Request for Board Action asking that they sell MIC.
Dusenbury isn't going to admit that he didn't know what he was talking about when he was running, neither will Montgomery. Carney and Herring? They'll vote to sell just to get this over with.
Although the debt will be with us for years to come.
I think we should keep it until we have a clue what's going on, but, for those limited government, name calling, tea baggers with more time than sense, there's your plan.
You'd rather saddle everyone with even more debt because you have to have your way.
Go for it.
6:21....
Is anyone really calling for MIC to be sold immediately? Aren't we all just looking for the facts? We need to know the bottom line.....not the rosey "it can't miss...it's a cash cow" Frank Rader facts....but the bottom line of the options.
I think you can add Abraham and Houston to the list of "yea" votes for MIC.
This is really going to be fun to watch.
Talk about stirring up 'crap' :)
Anybody having any luck with the pertition? I been reminding my neighbors that Jesus wrote the Constitution and that cable TV is the work of the Debil. They signing up like mad.
Here's what I been using:
We the People of Mooresville demand that you sell that cable tv company right now. Since we got the Right of Freedom to Speak we are telling you that we are the Public and We are in Charge and that you work ofr US and that you have to do what we say because gubmint is SUPPOSED to be limited to fighting wars and cutting taxes for the RICH and whatever else they say on FOX tonight.
Anybody who didn't sign this petition doesn't matter. We showed up and that means all 5 of us get to decide what happens around here.
And this has nothing to do with America ellecting a colored man to be President. Even though WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well......It appears intelligent discussion has taken a few days off.
As I said on Sunday:
"Is anyone really calling for MIC to be sold immediately? Aren't we all just looking for the facts? We need to know the bottom line.....not the rosey "it can't miss...it's a cash cow" Frank Rader facts....but the bottom line of the options".
The Public has spoken, man. Sell it now, right now. It's the only way to fix this thing. It'll end up costing us billions if we don't go down to Town Hall and jump up and down and scream like banjos.
The Town Board needs to do what we tell them to do right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
selling won't fix anything, and cause tax payers more dept. the citizens should be asking bvu questions. and not all the citizens are asking for a sell of mic. i for one do not care to jump up and down at Town Hall and scream my head off. a better idea is to go to mic, ask to speak to the GM. he probably won't give you a straight answer to any of your questions, because he reports to the real problem "BVU".
i for one do not think selling mic is going to solve anything. the citizens have to put their arms around finding solutions. i love the idea of the advisory panel. citizens being involved in learning more about the situation, and exploring ways to get mic moving forward. The Town Board needs to do what is right for the community and it's assets.
m
Yawn.
During this refreshing pause, who, exactly, are 'baby making people'?
Larry Gregory, former candidate for Mayor of the Town of Mooresville, hopefully, can enlighten us.
Mr. Gregory?
the citizens have NOT put their arms around finding a solution -- especially not YOUR solution "m". There are many out there who think selling it is the only option.
Yeah. Buying it was a bad idea. Selling it now, without even knowing how much we stand to loose, is the ONLY thing that makes sense.
To certain, very limited individuals. Who, unfortunately, get to vote, and make babies. They need a license to drive, though. Go figure.
Can we do a Mooresville Fair Tax to cover our loses? Maybe $5000.00 per citizen? That way the Rich pay as much as the Poor? That's certainly 'fair' :)
If 'We the People' vote to allow the gubmint to shoot anyone who can't pay up that would probably save a crap load of Medicare, Medicaid not to mention Social Security and Welfare. Plus, just think about how many 'baby making people' Mooresville could get rid of.
http://davidsonnews.net/2010/03/12/state-concerned-about-financial-problems-at-mi-connection/
Several of those board members, including acting chairman John Kasberger of Mooresville, said the board’s letter outlines the system’s actions and they did not want to discuss it further. “At this point we’ll let the letter (MI-Connection’s response) stand for itself,” Mr. Kasberger told DavidsonNews.net. “We think it addresses the points made by the LGC.”
In other words, don't ask any more questions because this is all you're going to get! So shut up all you concerned taxpayers -- the MIC board has written their letter to explain the ineptness of the acquisition process, the poor financial management, and their continued loss in revenue. I'm sure we all feel so much better now.
Atleast Davidsonnews covers this stuff!
anon.........all........."calming waters in LN is a good suggestion." as for MIC, well, all don't you worry.....there are people in the wings uncovering things that are going to be prudent to our TOM and TOD. cia, anon
I have always been curious about why the Mooresville Tribune doesn't ever say much about MIC.....maybe it has to do with the huge ads they run for MIC.
The Mooresville Tribune refused to write the story about Curtis Pond, won't stir the pot when it comes to MIC. It's an ad rag and nothing more.
http://www.wfae.org/wfae/1_87_316.cfm?action=display&id=5947
Oh where, o where is the investigative reporting of the Tribune? We have to go to other locations to find any coverage on MIC, other than the recent news about Atkins desire for this new board thing. Since when did the free press simply become an instrument for government propoganda?
Historically, the Mooresville Town Board has been a rubber stamp for the developers. 300 families defrauded in Curtis Pond, at least a dozen in Oaks on Main. Those are just the MAG developments.
Someone needs to write the story.
anon.....3/11....frankly, it's not a viable option for the taxpayers of TOM to consider selling MIC. digging into the facts, for me anyway, makes that picture clearer and clearer to me. and you anon, should dig for the facts to learn the truth to understand selling it is not a viable option. many of the tax payers don't know the facts, and it's up to citizens to learn the facts to discern the truth of what is best for the citizens, and not anon's who shoot off thier mouths without understanding the facts and truth. selling MIC will NOT do anyone any good at this time.
m
on another note: did you see that big and little owe thousands of dollars in taxes for langtree and the atrium that they have failed to pay?
M -- it seems that you perceive your truth to be "the truth" and that your perception is the only correct/viable perception. We are going to lose money on MIC -- the question is how much more do we want to lose in the future. Are we going to continue to play craps with this endeavor or are we going to take the lumps we are already aware of and get out of the mess? I'm sure this wonderful advisory board will keep us all well informed of "the facts" of the situation.
J
http://davidsonnews.net/2010/03/19/how-to-solve-town-budget-woes-restructure-manager-says/
Davidson is projecting an 11% budget cut which means possible layoffs for town employees. It also means they won't build the fire station they need.
Mooresville's budget will also reduce, resulting in a negative impact on the budgets for our essential services. Meanwhile, ToM is still talking about dumping $10million into a golf course and dumping a rather large chunk of change into the sewer system known as MIC.
No matter how much spin this advisory board and the ToM puts on it, we have to get rid of this thing now before it severely impacts our essential services.
2 commissioners fired over MIC in the last election: Carney, Abraham, and Houston remain. Abraham, Houston, and Atkins are up to bat on the next election --it's time to clean house by voting them all out, and then get some folks to run against Carney and Herring so be rid of the rest of the crew.
You boys were elected to protect the town and to make us stronger. This group has overseen CFK, the Water Treatment Plant fiasco, and the MIC debacle. It's time for us to tell these apprentices they're fired.
The Citizens Advisory Panel that was approved by the Board last night?
As I understand it, the panel is supposed to find out what it will cost if we keep MIC, how much it will cost if we sell it now, and provide the Board and the citizens with that information.
Before we start talking about 'throwing the bums out', we should decide who the bums really are. And take a moment to consider why both Commissioners Herring and Carney, in spite having voted to purchase MIC, ran unopposed.
Everyone makes mistakes. At least they are willing to do the jobs that no one else wanted.
Let me understand your view here Brian...
You are insinuating that because Herring and Carney ran unopposed that it was OK that they were hoodwinked by Rader and Da' Mayor. My take is that they allowed themselves to become mesmerized by Rader math and did not do their own due diligence.
Why would someone have the guts to become a Commissioner when this debacle is looming over the Town? Howdy Doody would have had no opposition! Wanting to be a public servant just goes so far! Jumping into the frying pan would have been sheer insanity!
They ran unopposed because no one else wanted the job, not because they are the best suited for the positions. They were asleep at the switch during the MIC decision making process and are just as 'guilty' as Rader and Da' Mayor!
Anonymous 2:46pm said...
"Let me understand your view here Brian...You are insinuating that because Herring and Carney ran unopposed that it was OK that they were hoodwinked by Rader and Da' Mayor."
Nope. Not insinuating anything.
I'm saying that Commissioners Herring and Carney made a mistake voting in favor of purchasing MIC. Based on what we think we know now, a year into an economic meltdown.
Not sure if they were fooled or hoodwinked by anyone. That's just noise.
I'm not altogether certain that it was a bad business decision based on the economic climate that existed at the time, either. I'm a fiscal conservative, not an anti-big government, anti-Socialist whatever.
I don't think it's the role of government to own business that compete with private enterprise, but, I don't expect everyone to agree with me or my views. I'm not that arrogant or that foolish.
If Commissioners Rader, Herring and Carney and our former Mayor were shown numbers that were flawed or given bad advice, then I don't feel they are 'guilty' of anything.
"They ran unopposed because no one else wanted the job, not because they are the best suited for the positions. They were asleep at the switch during the MIC decision making process and are just as 'guilty' as Rader and Da' Mayor!"
Exactly. In spite of the fact that both were being castigated for making a mistake in judgment and upsetting a sector of our community, both were willing to run again for jobs that no one else had the guts, the time or the inclination to run for. You ought to be able to pay for your mistakes. These guys didn't run and hide.
I'm grateful for their service to the Town.
Commissioner Dusenbury and the Mayor ran saying that we should sell MIC. Now that they've been elected and are serving, both seem to be interested in understanding all of the facts before pressing the Board to sell.
Wisdom comes through age and experience. And accurate information.
Throw the bums out is too easy. Hyperbole doesn't solve our problems.
The Board just voted to form a committee of citizens to look at MIC and tell us where we stand, show us our options, and help the Board decide what course to take with regard to MIC.
That seems to be a step in the right direction.
Brian,
Form a committee is a step in the right direction? Rarely does, accurate, timely and constructive results come out of a committee. It is more of an exercise of spreading responsibility.
I really don't care about your political views or persuasion, that is, as you said, hyperbole. Also, let's set the history straight if we could. Sometimes looking back can help move forward.
The forecast for MIC were Alice in Wonderland numbers. These were developed with a ridiculous view of the world. Constant expansion, continuing economic boom, low ball infrastructure costs, impossible to meet programming fees and definite "we will buy this system whatever the outcome" bent. The Mayor and the Commissioners just needed to step out of the "we hate Time Warner" box and open their eyes. Make no mistake about it Brian, that philosophy is still resonating in the Town Hall.
A simple search on the internet would have told them they were paying an exorbitant price for a dilapidated, featureless system. So why didn't they even voice an objection?
You can't fix STUPID. Even with age and experience!
Realistic views of expansion (MIC is landlocked), dealing with a small player (BVU), true costs of programming and the complexity of running a Service were presented but not accepted. The Town Board meetings on MIC clearly pointed these facts out to the Commissioners but these opposing views were treated like the black plague.
Again, this psyche is still resonating in the Town Hall and until this is wrung out the the heads of our Town Government, there is little chance for a reasonable conclusion.
These guys didn't run and hide, agreed but they should have no input into the forward looking decision making process. They have shown the depth of their arrogance by ignoring a saner approach.
I am not grateful for their 'service' to the Community as you are. They contributed to probably the largest financial blunder this Town has, or ever will see. There is a real possibility that we may never see our Town recover from this blunder. In private industry, they would have seen the door a long time ago.
They made a mistake not because they were given bad numbers, as you alluded to, but because they didn't question those numbers! They silently sat by and allowed MIC to happen.
Let's face facts.
You don't need a Committee to tell you that this system is worth a lot less than the purchase price ($60M less), has limited room for expansion, faces intense competition from Mega players, its cost structure is too high due to its diminutive size, and will be a monetary drain on its municipalities in the foreseeable future.
All of this should be quantified by your "Committee" but the facts are the facts. And the outlook is dire.To delay the inevitable is fool hearty and will further drain our Town of its finances.
While I appreciate your middle of the road, passive approach, I don't share your view.
Part 1
Anonymous 5:49pm said...
"Brian, Form a committee is a step in the right direction? Rarely does, accurate, timely and constructive results come out of a committee. It is more of an exercise of spreading responsibility."
That's an interesting opinion. And a broad sweeping generalization with no factual basis.
"I really don't care about your political views or persuasion, that is, as you said, hyperbole."
No. You only care about your political views and persuasion. And presenting your opinions as informed or as facts when they are neither.
Hyperbole, for your information, is usually an intended exaggeration presented for effect, or hyperbole parroted by someone who believes it to be true, such as your "The forecast for MIC were Alice in Wonderland numbers".
"Also, let's set the history straight if we could. Sometimes looking back can help move forward."
I'll interrupt here to point out that the Citizens Advisory Panel is intended to do just what you suggest. Anyone interested in the rest of your rant can scroll up to enjoy it again.
"You can't fix STUPID. Even with age and experience!"
We'll properly credit Ron White for the first half of this one.
"These guys didn't run and hide, agreed but they should have no input into the forward looking decision making process. They have shown the depth of their arrogance by ignoring a saner approach."
Okay. You've called the Commissioners and the Mayor who voted for the purchase of MIC both stupid and arrogant. What good did that do? Future Commissioners and Mayors, reading the archives of The Gatton Report will tremble before making decisions, in fear of another anonymous poster calling them bad names.
Commissioners Herring and Carney, elected by the citizens of Mooresville, citizens who outnumber you, will each continue to have a voice on our Board and exercise votes on the issues. You missed your chance to vote them out. See you in two years.
"I am not grateful for their 'service' to the Community as you are."
I know. They didn't agree with you.
Nevertheless, they are doing the work that neither of us are doing. Which is considerably more than either of us are doing for this community. Whether we agree with them, or not.
Part 2
Anonymous 5:49pm said...
"They made a mistake not because they were given bad numbers, as you alluded to, but because they didn't question those numbers! They silently sat by and allowed MIC to happen."
You just don't know that. But, it sounds good. I don't know that Commissioner Carney is capable of sitting silently.
"Let's face facts."
Present one. Then another. Not your views. Or your opinions. Facts. That, or stop using the 'f' word.
That's our problem. I'd like to see a Citizens Advisory Panel share the facts with all of us. You'd prefer to post what you think and have everyone take your opinions as facts.
"You don't need a Committee to tell you that this system is worth a lot less than the purchase price ($60M less), has limited room for expansion, faces intense competition from Mega players, its cost structure is too high due to its diminutive size, and will be a monetary drain on its municipalities in the foreseeable future."
There is one fact in there. MIC does face competition. The rest? And what exactly is your point. That's meant rhetorically.
"All of this should be quantified by your "Committee" but the facts are the facts. And the outlook is dire.To delay the inevitable is fool hearty and will further drain our Town of its finances."
Once again, hyperbole. Unless you believe any of that is true. In any case, baseless rhetoric intended to frighten the uninformed, which most of us are. It's the hope of some citizens, and a majority of our Town Board, that the Citizens Advisory Panel can provide us with facts. All of us, even you, might learn something. Or at least have that opportunity.
"While I appreciate your middle of the road, passive approach, I don't share your view."
You also don't understand my approach or my view. Neither are passive. I want the facts. I support the Citizens Advisory Panel and the Town Board that created it last night. I look forward to finding out what it will cost us to keep MIC and what it will cost us if we sell it.
I'm not interested in 'dire' predictions made by anonymous disgruntled people. Don't care about inflammatory posts on a small town blog that are devoid of anything other than generalities or 'facts' cherry picked from Google.
Sorry. Sell it, sell it now isn't selling.
There was a Board meeting last night. Unless you're the old guy in the cowboy hat, Frank Rader, the guy from MIC, the two friends who attended with me, or a member of our Town Board or Staff, you missed a good one.
No one was there with a petition demanding the sale of MIC. In case you were curious.
Holian,you are a Blogoholic! aka Problogger. how about taking a blogiday? your rants are tiring. go play with your commissioner friends.
Anon 10:23pm said...
"Holian,you are a Blogoholic! aka Problogger. how about taking a blogiday? your rants are tiring. go play with your commissioner friends."
To be a Problogger, I'd have to get paid. No such luck.
When one side of an issue 'rants' and the other side watches and doesn't respond, it's a Tea Party. This is a blog.
The limited government, FOX watching parrots, sell it now forget the consequences, name calling, Tea Party types enjoy one sided diatribes and make the mistake too often of assuming that everyone who disagrees with them is going to be passive and silent.
Here's what Jamie says this blog is for:
"This blog was created to foster open, uncensored dialogue among and between Mooresville/South Iredell residents. Have an opinion? I want to hear it. It's simple to do. At the end of every blog entry is a "Comments" link. Click on it, and type away. You even have the option of commenting anonymously."
Rant away. If my posts exhaust you, skip over them. Try to remember that Freedom of Speech cuts both ways, though.
Hello....
Unfortunately, I had to work late and missed the Board meeting this week (the mortgage company really likes it when I continue to make payments).
Can anyone tell me if it was recorded or give me any information on what happened?
At a meeting held at Town Hall at 6pm on March 18th the Mooresville Town Board voted to approve the creation of the Citizens Advisory Panel to work with the MIC Strike Team and MIC to help document our issues with MIC and communicate them to the residents of Mooresville.
That vote was 3 to 2, with Mac Herring absent. In favor were Commissioners Dusenbury, Carney and Atkins. Opposed were Commissioners Abraham and Houston.
Prior to the vote, Commissioner Abraham repeatedly expressed reservations about creating the Panel 'so quickly'. Commissioner Carney pointed out that the Board had spent years working on MIC and that creating a means of communicating with citizens was long overdue. Commissioner Abraham made a motion to table the motion to create the panel.
Commissioner Abraham's motion was defeated 3 to 2. In favor were Commissioners Abraham and Houston. Opposed were Commissioners Dusenbury, Carney and Atkins.
Commissioner Abraham, upon the defeat of his motion to table, told the other Commissioners that they should remember not to vote to table such important motions going forward. It was unclear why Mr. Abraham objected so strongly to the creation of the Citizens Advisory Panel. He first said that he supported such a panel of citizens, but, that he thought the Board was moving too fast. He then recommended that the Commissioners on the MIC Strike Team should be appointed to the panel. Mr. Abraham didn't seem to understand that a panel of concerned citizens would have no credibility if they were seen as a propaganda tool of the Board that voted to purchase MIC.
Then Mr. Abraham said that he objected to the vote because he hadn't spoken to the MIC Board of Directors. According to Mr. Abraham, he had neglected to do so. Commissioner Atkins informed Mr. Abraham that he had spoken to the MIC Board and that they had no objections to the creation of such a panel. Mr. Abraham objected then because Mac Herring was not present for the vote. Mr. Atkins reported that Mr. Herring supported the creation of the panel.
With the exception of Mitch Abraham and Thurman Houston, the Mooresville Town Board of Commissioners and our Mayor are in favor of sharing the good news and the bad with the citizens of Mooresville. Commissioners Abraham and Thurman are in favor of communicating with the citizens, but, at some future date.
Brian,
Thanks for the detailed report.
I'm a little surprised Abraham and Houston were against creating the panel "so quickly". We don't need to be in water up to our knees before we start looking for the life boats.
Abraham and Houston were two of the three commissioners who actually heard the public outcry three years ago....you'd think they'd want the public to fully understand what our options are with this mess.
Was a panel created? Thanks again for the update...I thought I might see something in the Tribune...silly me.
The Board voted to create the panel.
Commissioner Atkins mentioned that David Coble of Mooresville was instrumental in outlining the plan for the panel's creation and scope.
With the exception of Mitch Abraham and Thurman Houston, the Board of Commissioners and the Mayor seemed to think the Citizens Advisory Panel was a great idea.
The Town is accepting applications for the panel. Anyone interested can find the application here:
http://www.ci.mooresville.nc.us/portal/townappointedboards
said, Brian, is this really the purpose of the CAP?
As I understand it, the panel is supposed to find out what it will cost if we keep MIC, how much it will cost if we sell it now, and provide the Board and the citizens with that information.
I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding why we need the CAP to do what our elected officials are supposed to be doing? I think this is a politically smart move on their parts as it divests them from any responsibility. I'm sure you'll see it differently than I do, but wanted to share my viewpoint.
I am also somewhat confused as to how ToM, and particularly Mr. Atkins, could move so swiftly on this panel but has apparently not moved at all on establishing an ethics panel -- an idea he and I discussed at some point during the CFK debacle.
I question the motives, but hope the CAP is instrumental in getting rid of MIC.
Larry Green said...
"Brian, is this really the purpose of the CAP?"
As I understand it, yes. I think Mitch Abraham would prefer the CAP to be something akin to a propaganda tool of the Board, hence his suggestion to make the members of the Strike Team members of the panel, or allow Town employees to become members.
I think Commissioner Atkins, as well as the Mayor and the Commissioners who voted in favor, even Commissioner Herring who was unable to attend the meeting, want to lay all the cards on the table before a group of citizens of Mooresville and listen to recommendations on how to move forward with MIC and communicate the complete picture to all of us.
Miles Atkins isn't going to keep anything secret, and David Coble is just a tax payer like the rest of us. He doesn't work for Wachovia, and is only interested in the facts.
My hope though is that the CAP will allow all of us to see real numbers, examine all pertinent documents, and reach an informed consensus. And if we aren't able to agree on the future of MIC at least we'll be disagreeing on facts and not basing our arguments on conjecture and guesswork, or political dogma.
I hope you're not saying that citizens who work for ToM will be inherently denied membership on CAP.
I also hope that CAP will be allowed to request and obtain any and all documents necessary to see all the cards -- not just the cards laid in front of them by the ToM Board.
I hope your hope is fulfilled and that you have access to EVERYTHING. I hope you will demand even those documents and numbers which MIC will declare off-limits because of their sensitive nature.
Good luck!
The MIC special meeting is now on the TOM website
http://mooresville.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=bb2c712ed6e7d7012bc71d50fb3b061b
Larry Green said...
"I hope you're not saying that citizens who work for ToM will be inherently denied membership on CAP."
If I heard the motion correctly, no Town employees, Board members, MIC employees, Wachovia employees: no one with a vested interest, or who might be influenced by interested parties.
I'm afraid I won't be applying for a position on the CAP, I'll have to leave all that demanding to others.
I got a copy of the resolution, which appears to contradict itself regarding whether or not elected officials can serve on the panel. In one part it clearly says they can't, but then in another section is says the strike team or any other duly appointed member of the board may serve on the panel as needed.
There is no mention of Wachovia employees, and there is no exclusion for family members of excluded categories to be allowed to serve on the panel.
I've asked that the document be posted on the ToM website so everyone can review it.
If you've seen the document, you're ahead of me. I heard the discussion of the language, but, there was no document available to review at the Board meeting.
Larry, let me rephrase that. There was a document available for review at the meeting. There was no final document, including amended language, the actual version that was voted on.
I hope the ToM will post it for everyone to see. I don't understand how the video can be posted so quickly but a document can't.
I'm sorry you won't be applying for the panel. It looks like you have many talents in that area. Maybe you might reconsider? :-)
In watching the meeting it seems that the purpose of the CAP is to tell the public that we have to rally around the cable company...that we have no choice but to embrace it.
As far as Mr. Atkins is concerned, we just can't sell it now. I would like to see the actual costs of selling it now (with penalties involved) vs. what we can expect to lose in the next year to three years, assuming the lofty goals of the budget are not met.
With an unemployment rate in Iredell of almost 14% it will be a moral victory to not lose more customers. As much as I want to "feel good" about this thing, in most households (mine included) the bottom line is cost. The town should be no different.
If these figures are available they should be posted.
I had to work that night, too, but, I just got finished watching the meeting on the link somebody posted.
http://mooresville.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=bb2c712ed6e7d7012bc71d50fb3b061b
Sure did seem like a tense meeting for something that is supposed to be as open as this Citizens Advisory Panel. Who is David Coble?
Mitch Abraham has a problem with the Town Manager giving admin support to the MIC Citizens Advisory Panel, but, he's okay giving Town admin support to every other committee?
He doesn't want citizens to 'get answers' first? I don't understand why Abraham thinks there should be a filter, him, between MIC and the people who own it.
Everyone needs to watch this meeting. There's something wrong here.
I don't want a Citizens Advisory Panel to get answers for Mitch Abraham. I want that panel to get answers for all of us.
How long has Mitch Abraham been a commissioner? Looks like it's time to send him home.
Based on what I can determine by watchihng the meeting and reading the resolution, as I understand it the purpose of the CAP isn't to tell us to rally around MI. The purpose seems to me to get all the information it can about where the Town stands now in regards to MI-Connection. Based on that understand what all the potential options are and the implications of them. I'm guessing there will be lots of discussion about the implications of selling it, including the numbers and long term benefits/consequences.
I think it's premature to already right off a panel of citizens who've not even been named yet and not even started work.
I've not seen the document posted on the town website -- so I put it up on your family site for all to see. http://larrygreen.org/resolution.pdf
Please advise if you have any difficulties. I've asked Miles to clarify two of the resolutions which appear to contradict themvels, and Miles indicates he will send it to Bill Gambill to re-word.
Larry Green said...
"I've not seen the document posted on the town website -- so I put it up on your family site for all to see. http://larrygreen.org/resolution.pdf"
Thank you.
Well, based on the article in this morning's Tribune, I believe my initial assessment of the CAP was accurate. Their function will be to explain to the general public why they need to embrace MIC, in short, to "put the lipstick on the pig".
I did find it interesting that Carney and Herring have now confessed they didn't have all the facts before them when they voted for this thing, though still not acknowledging they didn't listen to the overwhelming voice of the people.
So...any thought of selling this thing is out the window. We're stuck with it....get ready to "pucker up".
Doodle Bug, Doodle Bug, where are you? Mayor Montgomery is going to write a letter to the editor. Well. Isn't that sweet :)
Abraham voted against the CAP, Houston did too and couldn't be reached for comment because Mitch apparently didn't tell him what to say.
At least Carney, Atkins and Herring are trying to communicate with us. They don't seem to have anything they want to hid.
Anyone know why Mitch Abraham doesn't want citizens sticking OUR noses under his tent?
Dusenbury is in favor of CAP, too.
Mitch Abraham is against it for some reason.
If Mayor Montgomery decides he wants to hide full time and quits, who takes over as Mayor? Special run off election, or do the Commissioners pick somebody?
Y'all leave Mitch alone. As soon as one of his buddies starts another development or decides to build us a Water Treatment Plan, we'll need Mitch Abraham to get us another 'good deal'. Wink. Wink :)
I hate to break this to you guys, but, we have Mayor Stephen Gambill. Doodle Bug doesn't blink unless Mayor Gambill tells him to. If Doodle Bug can't do the job we need to do something about it.
I don't know the Town Attorney, but, I'm glad we have someone running our Town Board meetings.
For those who didn't see it coming :)
http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2009/jul/01/chris-montgomery/news-local-local_govtpolitics/
Reporter - "What is one thing you think the current board/mayor is doing wrong?"
Candidate Doodle Bug - "Again, communication is the key. And to communicate, you need to be visible to the community. I am looking forward to the prospect of the town of Mooresville as my new office, meeting and greeting natives and newcomers, and being relied upon as a source for important issues."
Sometimes, when you get what you wish for? You hose up things for everyone else. Thanks to all those who elected this guy.
Jim I disagree with your assessment of the CAP. I think it's a shame you have already written the panel and those that will serve on it off as stooges for the BoC.
I am reserving judgement on the panel until...you know...it's actually formed and does something? That's what I think most reasonable people will do.
Those who only look for the bad in things will always find it.
I agree. I don't see anything in the article that suggest the CAP will be puppets for the commissioners. I don't believe that is the intent of the commissioners who voted for it either.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/chris-montgomery-for-mayor/105263228547
Patrick McHenry really isn't the dumbest Republican on God's earth.
Anon 1:41 and 1:46,
I certainly agree, if you look for the bad in things you'll find it. I came to my conclusion based on a couple of statements in the article:
"Officials are hoping the new advisory panel will help the public understand issues such as the complexities of the town's financial obligations to MI-Connection, which some officials have said recently would be difficult to shed."
Further down in the article it states that Setzer (finance director), Carney, Herring, Abraham, and Dusenbery are all in favor of keeping it, stating that we have to get the word out to the public that selling is not an option.
As Dusenbery said: "The ownership of MI Connection is a fact, so now we are obligated to provide oversite (sic) for the citizens of Mooresville and maximize the investment to the best of our ability."
"The advisory panel, said Dusenbury, 'will create another information vehicle from the citizens of Mooresville and allow better discussion of the investment with them.'"
I couldn't find anywhere in the article that selling was being given any serious consideration by any of the players involved.
Perhaps I'm jumping the gun but it seems like the key players' minds are made up.
Jim,
perhaps the plan is to show the CAP the numbers and the cost implications of selling the system so that they understand?
If there are penalties and debt obligations in place that make it damaging to the town's finances to sell at this time why would anyone want to do that? Get rid of MI and get only 30 million for it according to the original article would mean 60 million left in debt the town would still be on the hook for. We no hope of any revenue coming in from MI to pay for that the only way to do it is to raise taxes. Imagine the complaints that would come from that?
Many people are in the cap of "sell it now, I don't care what it costs." That's a narrow view in my opinion.
4:32,
I am absolutely not in the "sell it now" camp.
By the same token, I don't think it's wise to make up your mind either way before you've heard ALL OF THE FACTS, including the ones that BVU-MIC doesn't want to share with us, the owners of the business.
As I've said before, my hope is all of the options would be on the table. It sounds like, from what I've read, the commission has decided "we're keeping the baby".
I only hope that this time they do their homework. This is going to be a very expensive lesson.
There are so many penalties in place it's beyond comprehension. BVU has something like a $1.5 million penalty if MIC decides not to use them even after the current contract expires.
As for the comments about "doodle-bug", the town's mayor is a figure head, by law, except in the case of a tie. The real power in town hall is the town manager. I would say the assistant town manager as well, but I'm afraid that will start an entirely new discussion.
I am of the belief that selling the system now, and knowing what we stand to lose is better than holding onto a system which has proven it's not manageable and is not going to be profitable. I think that's practical, not a narrow view of the situation. It's not the town's job to offer cable/internet to citizens no matter how faulty the town leaders perceived the system to be. What concerns me is the fact that we seem to be forgetting that real people will be impacted by the budget cuts we'll be facing in the very near future. Budget cuts required, in large part, due to the ownership of MIC: Job loss, decreased essential services, and the residual impact those losses will have on the overall economic situation of the town.
I'm not an economist, but if someone loses a job, they will more than likely end up collecting unemployment benefits, losing health care coverage, and not spend as much within the local economy. During a period of unemployment it is not uncommon for people to have to live on credit cards, choose which bills to pay, accrue all sorts of interest charges, and be unable to pay rent/mortgage/loans. I think those are the unmentioned costs we likely bear by not selling this thing quickly. An alarmist view, but look around and it's not an unlikely possibility.
Someone mentioned that Carney and Herring sound like they're running for re-election already -- they were just voted in and had NO OPPOSITION. That's the scary part to me.
That's Mayor Doodle Bug, if you don't mind. Let's show some respect.
Deep breaths, Larry. It's scary stuff. People doing what you don't want them to. People having opinions that aren't your opinions. People wanting to know things before making recommendations or voting to sell things. Gosh. It's enough to keep a person all tied up in knots and make them say the same thing, over and over and over again.
Look, we get it. The Town should not have purchased MIC. The people who blogged against it and who carried signs against it and who went to Town meetings and said it was a bad idea because of their political philosophies were ignored. Not the 'overwhelming' voice of the people, mind you. Just the people who showed up. The people who were dead set against the Town buying MIC were ignored. Oh well. Too bad?
The horse has left the barn, Larry. Now, we could sell MIC, before we understand how much we stand to lose, or, we can wait and see how much we stand to lose, if we sell it now, or try and understand how much we stand to lose if we hold on to it.
Selling it now just because you don't think the Town should have bought it in the first place may serve your needs, but, it doesn't serve anyone else. At least not anyone with any common sense. Making you happy is not worth seeing our property taxes go up in order to service a debt that we can't pay off early. We don't know any more than that, at the moment.
You said that it's not the Town's job to offer cable/internet services, etc. Okay, fine.
Rhett ran on selling MIC. Now that he has a better understanding of the situation, he doesn't seem to want to sell it, sell it now.
Commissioner Dusenbury seems like a smart guy. And I think he's honest. He is someone who seems to believe that big government isn't good. Can we trust that, since his rhetoric has changed, his opinion, that we should sell MIC now, is informed and sensible? Or convince ourselves that the Commissioner has been overtaken by the Ghost of Big Gubmint Past?
Your Mayor Doodle Bug, at some point, may have to tell you that now isn't the right time to lose the $80 million we'll have to put in escrow, plus the debt service payments, plus the $12.5 million that we can pay off early, in order to MAYBE get someone to pay $30 million dollars for the system. He might also have to explain that we would probably have to get Davidson to agree to throw their investment down the drain, before we could follow your advice.
So, in order to save $400,000.00 in cut backs, you'd have us lose more than $60 million dollars and any hope of income to offset the debt service payments. You are not an economist.
People might lose their jobs. And that is a bad thing. Our property taxes might go up. That is a bad thing, too. But, doing something dumb won't change any of that.
An alarmist view doesn't help rational decisions get made, Larry. Beliefs are wonderful things. Facts mean more.
There were six seats up for election the last go round and four were unopposed. That isn't scary. It's sad. People, by and large, don't care. The overwhelming majority of the citizens of Mooresville don't care.
Don't be so scared, Larry. Tomorrow is another day. Read the New Testament and leave the Old Testament alone for a few days. Whew. All this fear just wears you out, doesn't it?
If the Town decides they want to buy another golf course, cable company or a race team or a titty bar, we can all put on our small gubmint tee shirts and paint up some signs. Until then, maybe we should just calm down and let a few people with common sense read some stuff and tell us what the deal is.
No one is asking for any money from the Town for the cable company this month. We have a little time to figure this out.
Is it me or do you think that the CAP magnifying glass needs to placed on BVU's operations??? If the contract were to be broken, TOM should turn right around and seek restitution for their poor performance.
Correct me if I am wrong but weren't they the only company that bid on the management contract? If that is the case, that makes them an accomplice to the crime. If other companies said "No Thanks" wouldn't that be enough to raise enough doubt in the minds of the electeds?
Rev Green raises good points especially the impact of lost $$$$ on the overall economy-something I am not sure that could be fully captured in the Big Picture. In the end, I think the citizens deserve to know the worth of the system today and then break out the calculators.
Final thought-what do you suppose the number/percentage of households is that would never ever sign up for M-I due to their opposition to gov't ownership or fear of Big Brother???
I don't think Larry is putting out an alarmist opinion -- he's backed up his "alarms" with facts from Davidson to support the reality that we WILL lose services because of this. I don't know Larry well, but I know he's not "afraid" or "scared" about this, but a literalist such as yourself probably can't understand that.
Where did you come up with 6 up for election last time? We had 4 running for election last time: Carney, Herring, Thunberg, and Rader. Maybe you're head is so far up your search for the truth that you've found extra people running. Another reason not to "trust" you people who have so much "common sense."
I'm sure you're closely allied with Old Mooresville who sucked the town dry and thinks all of us damn yankees out to go back where we belong.
J
To the other Anons:
"Electeds"? Is that a common Moorevilleism, or something someone coined? I've only heard one of our Commissioners use that word. Can someone fill me in? I'm not a native son of Mooresville.
"...but a literalist such as yourself probably can't understand that."
I love it when conservative wing nuts apply labels to other people that only apply to themselves. I won't explain sarcasm, irony or satire to you. A "literalist" such as yourself wouldn't understand.
http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2009/oct/30/quiet-campaign-loud-impact/
"Only two of six government and school board races are contested, but those two races are high-profile ones -- for mayor and at-large commissioner."
You should continue to stay away from people with common sense :)
"I'm sure you're closely allied with Old Mooresville who sucked the town dry and thinks all of us damn yankees out to go back where we belong."
You just keep believing the voices in your head.
you bore me
and it sounds a lot like something Rader would say -- we just don't understand
Anonymous said...
"I don't think Larry is putting out an alarmist opinion -- he's backed up his "alarms" with facts from Davidson to support the reality that we WILL lose services because of this."
You might not think that, but, Larry Green does, here is what he wrote with words:
"An alarmist view, but look around and it's not an unlikely possibility."
Sell it, sell it now.
Look, Chicken Little, we're going to lose services IF we continue to pump unbudgeted bail outs into MIC, we all know that. It was in the paper. What don't know is what services we will lose if we sell it, sell it now. That's real simple. Isn't it?
You should get your meds checked too and relax before you have a stroke :)
Anonymous said...
"you bore me"
Try watching the Cartoon Network. You won't have to read so much.
This is pretty boring.
Sell it, sell it now. We shouldn't have bought it in the first place.
We can't, we don't know how much money we might lose.
Sell it, sell it now. We shouldn't have bought it in the first place.
That would be a bad idea until we figure out how much keeping will cost and compare that with what it will cost to sell it now.
Sell it, sell it now. We shouldn't have bought it in the first place.
I guess we could all pretend that the overwhelming majority of the citizens agree with that, and sell it now, but, that doesn't seem to be the case. Although agreeing with the bobble head would be easier. And less boring :)
yes, he seems to have been anticipating your response -- an alarm supported by what's happening all around us. But I won't waste irony/satire on you.
No matter how many names you want to call people, or how condescending you are to folks, it doesn't change the fact that budget cuts will impact our essential services.
Maybe you should call Larry and discuss your views with him. Or better yet, come out of anonymity and run in the next election so you can enlighten the rest of us with your dazzling brilliance, common sense, and hope?
Mayor Doodle Bug and Reverend Bobble Head - Small Gubmint Now and Forever, Whatever the Cost
Let's not forget Larry Gregory. He never did tell us who the 'baby making people' are.
and what do we call you?
Someone with common sense? Someone with an opposing view? Progressive? Communist, Socialist, Democrat, Republican?
Let's call each other Anonymous, until we both come out of hiding?
Sell it, sell it now remains a stupid idea.
Rev Bobblehead -- that made me giggle.
You are more than welcome to your opinion, as am I. All I do is state my opinion and beliefs. I'm not attacking you for your viewpoints, though I don't agree with them.
So, does everyone in Mooresville refer to elected officials as 'electeds'?
1:35 Anon:
Does it really matter?
Semantics aside, the questions/concerns raised here are valid points.
I appreciate all who contibute to this forum and it seems that at this point there are still more questions than answers.
Obviously selling the system immediately-as some bloggers have posted-is a complex penalty-laden maze but the Powerball jackpot is up to $60M this weekend!
Probably to the person who asked the question. It didn't seem rhetorical.
I thought about Reverend Green this weekend when conservatives were spitting and throwing racial slurs at Black House Members and calling Congressman Barney Frank God only knows what.
When Reverend Green encourages name calling on this blog, saying that he was just glad that people were getting engaged, by not condemning it, he expresses his opinions and views too clearly.
I'm curious, how many members of his congregation were in Washington protesting our representative form of government.
Good luck with Powerball.
Now there's an intelligent comment (please note satire). You are a very sad individual.
I didn't realize it was his job to tell you to be nice and not call people names. Ironic that you're the one being so "christian" and he's the one laughing -- I think you "christians" call that turning the other cheek?
As one of the congregation I can assure you we had no members in Washington. We were all at the BBQ working off our rear ends. Hope you came by for some pork.
I know. Anyone who doesn't agree with people who call themselves Christians is sad. I look forward to meeting a Christian someday.
Regarding your preacher, apparently his job is to cook pork, collect money in the name of God (from ignorant Santa/Jesus 'believers' such as yourself), and encourage people to call our Commissioners idiots.
And cry over a decision made two years ago, call for the current Board to behave in a fiscally irresponsible manner to satisfy his vision of government at the potential expense of all of the citizens of Mooresville, and rely on people like you to attack those who see his behavior as particularly un-Christian.
His job is to encourage people to call our Commissioners idiots, just as long as they're engaged in the debate. At least that's how he sees it.
The only one crying is you. That mean ol' Larry said something I don't agree with! Move on to another subject already. We all get that you don't like the man. But I'm really beginning to think you might pose a danger to him.
I'm glad there are pastors like him who are willing to stand up and fight the system, and I'm not a church member anywhere. I don't agree with his view of selling the system, but I don't begrudge him for saying it. All he's doing is stating his opinion.
Pose a danger to him? What are you, nuts?
Pastors like him, encouraging un-Christian behavior by people who agree with him, make the Church laughable. And, worse, there are people who see him as an example to follow. They are already the kind of people who sit every Sunday waiting for their heads to be filled with someone else's thoughts about God. Telling them what to think about everything else is too easy.
Larry is free to think that selling MIC is a good idea. But, it's important for everyone to know that his 'belief' is one based on ignorance.
As to liking him? I don't know him. I only know him from his posts. I don't like you, though.
You're an inflammatory moron. Hey, that's a different subject :)
Anonymous 9:08pm said...
"The only one crying is you."
You poor thing. When both sides resort to name calling, or when someone posts a response to one of you Larry Greenophiles, it's time to move on to another subject or drop it, or whatever.
When you're the ones talking, calling people idiots, or crying like little girls, you like it fine. And every one of you a pork eating 'Christian'.
Yeah, right. You're a bunch of tea party wing nuts.
what's a Greenophile?
Not to be picky, but anon 9:08 didn't say "The only one crying is you." You can't even quote correctly.
Christ, you can't even read :)
March 25, 2010 9:08 PM
Anonymous said...
The only one crying is you. That mean ol' Larry said something I don't agree with! Move on to another subject already. We all get that you don't like the man. But I'm really beginning to think you might pose a danger to him.
I'm glad there are pastors like him who are willing to stand up and fight the system, and I'm not a church member anywhere. I don't agree with his view of selling the system, but I don't begrudge him for saying it. All he's doing is stating his opinion.
He's right, though. It's the time at the bottom.
You made his night :)
Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Good job, wing nut.
I can read, dumbass. That was 9:24. The date/time stamp follow the post. And by "follow the post" I mean you read a post and then look below the post for the time/date stamp.
Really -- DUMBASS
Now, leave him alone. He knew where the time was. Probably the first time he's been right about anything all week. Let him enjoy it.
He's a VERY smart wing nut.
Anonymous said...
"I can read, dumbass."
Just a little longer and you get to watch Glenn Beck again :)
Dumbass? You go to Larry's church? Glad you're engaged in the process. Larry likes it, too.
Go get a pork samich.
My momma? Don't you talk about my momma. My momma was a good Christian lady and the best cat herder in Mooresille. Plus, plus, she could make pork samiches, pork roasts, pork sunglasses.......
nope, not a member of his church or any church.
Wing nut? Tell us again where the time is :)
Brian -- I think intelligent conversation has gone away again.
http://www.gmanet.com/Paper.aspx?CNID=43017
The Health Care Reconciliation Bill just passed the House. Christians everywhere are rejoicing. Except in America. And Mooresville.
Since I'm not a Christian, I'll be putting my Obama signs back out in the yard tomorrow to celebrate.
I think I'm going to call MIC tomorrow and see about increasing my level of service. Do what I can to help keep our property taxes from going up.
Anonymous said...
"http://www.gmanet.com/Paper.aspx?CNID=43017"
Are we all moving to Tifton? :)
One can only hope
Hey, speaking of Mooresville. Is that guy on the horse a klansman? Looks like somebody stuck some wings on him, but, I haven't seen many Angels on horseback or wearing a hood.
Wild. No wonder my Obama signs kept disappearing.
Can we keep MIC if they stop carrying BET? :)
Wow....this thread certainly went in to the "angry mob" mode quickly.
In an effort to bring the discussion back to some semblance of civility, I believe the Mayor's letter to this morning's paper now puts him more in line with Mr. Atkins and the other Commissioners.
So, again, I believe the primary goal of the CAP is to be a PR agent between MIC and the town.
I hope the CAP doesn't underestimate the anger of people who just won't subscribe to any MIC product no matter how critical it is to the town's bottom line.
Jim, I don't know if David Coble is going to be appointed to the CAP, but, if he is, he's not going to pull any punches. He won't act as a PR agent for the Board or pander to those who are still mad about the purchase.
He'll tell us what he learns and recommend the best business decision to the Board and to us.
If he has to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement, obviously, he'll respect that and share what he can.
I've only heard of three people who've applied, so, I hope anyone with an interest, regardless of whether they have a position already or not, will apply for the CAP.
I wish I could apply. Due to the nature of my job I just travel too much to be of any use.
My biggest concern is Mitch Abraham. For some reason he said he's in favor of the CAP, but, he came up with one reason after another for delaying it's creation. I think Commissioner Houston supported Commissioner Abraham's motion to table and followed his lead in voting against the creation of the CAP just to support Commissioner Abraham. His objections, when he spoke, seemed to parrot the gentleman to his right.
It remains to be seen what Commissioner Abraham can or will do to derail the CAP.
Not to waste our time with too much conjecture, but, if it turns out that our only sensible option is to keep MIC until 2017, do you think those who are still angry over the purchase would refuse to support a push to increase the subscriber base? Even if that was the only way to increase revenues and help us avoid increased property taxes or reductions in essential services?
You don't think the citizens of Mooresville are more rational than that?
BH.
This isn't a matter of endorsing a push to increase customer base. This is a matter of customer choice and our economic system at work.
Do you honestly believe that people will choose MIC if it isn't their best alternative just to save MIC?
By the way, these questions are rhetorical. You have no need to answer them! Or quote them with a response which seems to be your style.
So let's get real for a second; forget the angry let's sell it now theme.
Look at the landscape MIC has to play in.
MIC has a confined footprint and is surrounded by World Class service providers. TWC is overbuilding on the fringe on MIC. Mooresville's population is growing much slower than MIC's business case anticipated. Direct and Dish have better channel line-ups. Wired telephone demand is waning. Further MIC capital improvements will be directly impacted by the loss of capital backing. Programming rates continue to go higher. MIC has already picked the low hanging fruit of commercial customers and further infrastructure costs will be high to get to others.
MIC has few options.
Acquire customers by reducing price is an ugly option leading to further financial problems. Acquire marginal customers with low revenue prospects? Another ugly alternative. Acquire customers by delivering a CAP propaganda message of how this will save MIC?
Is it any wonder why no one wants to participate in a CAP? Why have your name tied to a dying quail?
Sorry to be so bleak but the above is the deck of cards TOM has dealt itself. My only hope for CAP is to finally get some factual information about MIC. Somehow, we'll need to sift through the 'rah rah' propaganda to see how bad things really are!
Again, knowing you are a blogger at heart, you'll probably choose to respond but I have no overwhelming desire to read your retort unless you have a Business Plan tied to a finite Recovery plan.
To hang hope on the CAP is ludicrous and naive.
Anonymous said...
"This isn't a matter of endorsing a push to increase customer base. This is a matter of customer choice and our economic system at work."
If holding on to MIC saves the town more money than selling it now, it will be a matter of endorsing a push to increase the customer base. Customer choice and our economic system are impacted by the fact that the Town, and those who pay property taxes, own MIC. Tax payers have a vested interest in choosing MIC. Even now, before we know whether it makes more sense to sell it, subscribing to MIC makes more sense than subscribing to another provider. It's our cable company, whether we like it or not.
"Do you honestly believe that people will choose MIC if it isn't their best alternative just to save MIC?"
I believe that if people are faced with increased property taxes, or reductions in essential services, they may choose to subscribe to MIC as an alternative to a provider that only pays subscription fees to our Town.
"By the way, these questions are rhetorical. You have no need to answer them! Or quote them with a response which seems to be your style."
The individual who posted this prefers that I don't respond. I won't respond to him as an individual. Going forward, perhaps he'll ignore my direct questions to Jim. Buy a dog. Make a friend. Or open his own blog where he can post his opinions without fear of contradiction.
"So let's get real for a second; forget the angry let's sell it now theme."
But, as Jim pointed out, we can't ignore the 'angry let's sell it now theme'. Not if it will potentially cause members of our limited subscriber base to ignore MIC as an alternative to other subscribers in a vain attempt to punish our local government officials for what they see as an affront. Only two of the Commissioners who voted to purchase MIC are still office holders. They will pay the same property tax increases as the rest of us, or suffer the same reductions in essential services. No more, no less. Refusing to subscribe to MIC out of anger is pointless. And we, collectively, will lose money.
"Is it any wonder why no one wants to participate in a CAP? Why have your name tied to a dying quail?"
We have no idea how many people have applied to serve on the CAP. I only know of three, but, I'm not Janet Pope.
"Sorry to be so bleak but the above is the deck of cards TOM has dealt itself. My only hope for CAP is to finally get some factual information about MIC. Somehow, we'll need to sift through the 'rah rah' propaganda to see how bad things really are!"
This individual assumes that there will be propaganda. CAP members haven't been appointed, yet, so, it's a little early to make baseless assumptions. Great propaganda message, though.
"To hang hope on the CAP is ludicrous and naive."
There's an old adage about assumptions. Anyone unfamiliar with it can search on Google.
Let's do some common sense math. Real low level stuff.
The town is paid a franchise fee by whoever provides my cable. Let's say it's $1.
MIC doesn't pay the town a percentage of their profits, when there are profits, but, neither does any other cable provider.
What MIC does is apply revenues to it's costs. Then it comes to Davidson and Mooresville when it needs money. No other cable company does that.
The more we subscribe, the more revenues there are, the lower the shortfalls, the less money MIC needs from either town.
The less money we have to shell out at the municipal level, the less chance of property tax increases or reductions in services, right?
That's not propaganda. That's just common sense. Anyone telling you otherwise works for Time Warner :)
That is a ridiculous argument! By asking residents to sign up for a sub par service, under the pressure that if they don't, their taxes will increase. That really makes sense. (note the satire)
So whatever they pay for this sub par service, should be considered a bail out tax. Average billing is about $100 a month, so the effective tax rate will increase $1200 a year! And their neighbor who doesn't sign onto MIC gets a $1200 tax break and better service.
Dumb, dumb and dumb!
Whatever spin the CAP puts on MIC, it doesn't negate the reality of the MIC situation, aptly illustrated by the previous poster.
See the old adage about sicking your head up your a$$. That's on Google as well!
Mooresville just approved writing a check to MIC for $400,000.00. Those funds weren't budgeted. Our property taxes are going to go up or the town is going to have to cut $400,000.00 from somewhere.
I was at the board meeting where Commissioners decided to provide less then had been planned for a local park, in order to save money.
Let's say MIC makes $10.00 per month per subscriber. That's $120.00 per year. If MIC could have picked up 3,333 new subscribers we wouldn't have had to write them a check for $400k.
The $10 a month number was pulled out of the air, they probably make more per subscriber.
http://www.freepress.net/node/74796
Boycotting MIC is bad for the citizens of both Davidson and Mooresville. Whether we sell it or keep it.
That common sense Math example sounds a bit like Rader Math! And is real low level stuff and intrinsically flawed. There is a huge difference between revenue and profits!
The more subscribers does not mean increased profits. New subscribers are harder to get and are not profitable. They are often offered incentives (low or no margin) to get them onto the system. It costs dollars to install their equipment(no profit exercise). Do not let anyone josh you. More subscribers are not the Utopia being dished out by MIC/ BVU or the Board (and potentially the CAP). These new subscribers are often a drain on profits and unless they are happy with the service and stay on the system, do little to increase profits.
With a losing concern like MIC, the more subscribers you have the greater the loss and the more MIC will demand from their respective Towns.
That's not propaganda. That's just common sense. Anyone telling you otherwise works for MIC or the Town Board.
Anonymous said...
"That common sense Math example sounds a bit like Rader Math! And is real low level stuff and intrinsically flawed. There is a huge difference between revenue and profits!"
That's true. The difference between revenue and profit is cost. That's why revenues are applied to costs to determine profit. More revenue offsets costs, reducing shortfalls, if there aren't enough revenues to produce a profit.
We aren't concerned with offsetting profits.
"The more subscribers does not mean increased profits. New subscribers are harder to get and are not profitable. They are often offered incentives (low or no margin) to get them onto the system. It costs dollars to install their equipment(no profit exercise). Do not let anyone josh you. More subscribers are not the Utopia being dished out by MIC/ BVU or the Board (and potentially the CAP). These new subscribers are often a drain on profits and unless they are happy with the service and stay on the system, do little to increase profits."
If MIC is losing money on each new subscriber, you're right. If they are making a low profit margin, then they are helping to offset our shortfalls. Which is good.
"With a losing concern like MIC, the more subscribers you have the greater the loss and the more MIC will demand from their respective Towns."
We haven't determined that MIC is losing money on new subscribers. And we have no way of knowing how low the profit margin is on them, or how long they have to subscribe before profit margins increase.
"That's not propaganda. That's just common sense. Anyone telling you otherwise works for MIC or the Town Board."
Until we know whether MIC loses money on new subscribers it's nothing but propaganda. I don't work for MIC or the Town Board. I do pay property taxes in Mooresville. And I subscribe to MIC.
We're going to pay any time MIC has a shortfall. Whether we sell it now or down the road.
More subscribers means we have to pay less, unless one of the Anons is right, that we lose money every time somebody signs up.
Seems like a no brainer. I've got Dish, so, I won't subscribe, but, there's nothing wrong with telling people that we own a cable company and that there's a good chance our services won't get cut if they subscribe.
The town isn't talking about making anybody subscribe. Why's everyone sound so pissed?
Think Rader used Rader Math because he knew he was talking to morons?
Could the town prevent any other cable company from operating in their franchise area? Make MIC the only game in town?
You're only allowed to call people names on here, or post, if you're one of the sell it, sell it now people. Try and remember that :)
"They want the town to lose millions of dollars to payback guys who aren't even on the board anymore. They like calling people idiots. It's what they see in the mirror."
The town will lose millions of dollars on this deal no matter whether we wait to get rid of it or not. I'm not willing to gamble more $$ by supporting MIC or suggesting the town keep the business. We know what our losses will be today (or pretty close to what we'd stand to lose), but we have absolutely no idea what we stand to lose by 2017. Any speculation about potential growth is just that, speculation.
I guess that makes me one of those "angry" people who must simply be unreasonable and unrealistic. For the record, I voted against Rader and Thunberg -- as did the majority of the voters. So I think there are more than one or two "angry" folks. However, I also voted against them b/c of the water treatment plant, the Crone debacle, as well as their choice to purchase MIC. It's time to get rid of this thing before it does more damage than anyone can possibly anticipate.
Yes, the town can insist that MIC be a monopoly within the town limits. It is already a monopoly and is the ONLY service provider allowed inside town limits except for Dish/DirecTv. You will not see TWC or any other similar provider offering services within the town limits.
I jumped back on here earlier this week and was surprised at the continued discussion. I won't address all the vitriol and name calling, but I will speak to the CAP since it was essentially my idea.
When Commissioner Atkins posted earlier on this blog about wanting citizen ideas for MIC I reached out to him and asked if the town board had considered putting together an appointed board. It made sense to me to do that at this point with MI-C because it's such a big part of the town now and the Board of Commissioners by themselves couldn't possibly handle all of it, and the rest of the town business, alone. I have followed the MI-C situation very closely and was interested in helping out. I was very much against the town purchasing it as I don't believe government should be running a business. But it is clear to me because we own it now, we need to improve our situation, so I want to be involved in figuring out how.
Commissioner Atkins asked what I envisioned the CAP doing and I laid out some of my thoughts. Among them were getting a full end to end view of where we stand right now with MI-C, legally, financially etc., what our options were concerning it and the costs associated with each, and then setting up an action plan to carry out whichever option made the most sense. Be that to sell the asset now, restructure the debt, ask for partners or yes, support it and make it successful. The intent is not, and never has been, to be a propaganda tool for MI-C, BVU, the Town of Mooresville or anyone else. The purpose is to gather information and present it to the citizens of Mooresville so that everyone can have a clear understanding of the situation. The minutes of every meeting will be posted, the names of all who serve on it will be known. This won't be done in secret.
I have applied to serve on the CAP and, if I'm fortunate enough to be appointed, those are the goals I want to see accomplished. I have no intention of sitting back and waiting on information to be given. I plan to ask questions, get information and brainstorm ideas with everyone else who chooses to serve. It's my firm belief that the town board and mayor are behind this and will work to see that the goal of the CAP is realized. If at any point that turns out not to be the case, I would end my association with the CAP and make it clear to everyone why. But I truly believe that won't be an issue.
I hope numerous people will seek to become involved. The more minds and experience focused on this issue the better off the town as a whole will be. My one request is that people allow the CAP to be put together and begin its work before drawing conclusions or attacking it. I believe the majority of people in Mooresville are fair minded and will provide it that courtesy.
Thanks.
David Coble
I think part of what makes people so angry at Rader and Thunberg was the smug way they handled the public forums. Their attitude was very much "we know more than you mere mortals".
That said....for me it really is a personal budget decision. I need high speed internet for my job. Windstream said they could match the "blazing" 5mb speed I get from MIC for considerably less money. I would switch to Windstream in a heart beat but they can only install it Monday-Friday. I'm not going to take a day off of work to get DSL.
You can be mad all day long at Wal Mart's business practices, but for me, and I suspect a lot of my neighbors if you beat the price on something I need I'll buy what your selling.
Anonymous said...
"The town will lose millions of dollars on this deal no matter whether we wait to get rid of it or not. I'm not willing to gamble more $$ by supporting MIC or suggesting the town keep the business. We know what our losses will be today (or pretty close to what we'd stand to lose), but we have absolutely no idea what we stand to lose by 2017. Any speculation about potential growth is just that, speculation."
I'm not disagreeing that the Town could potentially lose millions of dollars, whether we keep it until 2017, or sell it now.
But, without factoring in the additional costs of having to raise $80 million to put into escrow and the debt service fees, just losing $60 million, if we could sell it for $30 million, MIC would have to lose $8,571,428.57 a year and have no resale value in 2017 for it to be a good idea to sell it now.
Speculation is going to be required to forecast subscriber growth, profits and shortfalls, no doubt. But, I don't think there is any evidence to support MIC losing almost $9 million dollars a year.
So, keeping it might not result in more damage than we can possibly imagine. Getting rid of it now might result in someone getting a bargain and all of us going broke.
Jim,
Not trying to be a ra ra for MI, but I have both MI and Windstream at my home due to my work and I can tell you Windstream doesn't even approach the speeds I get with MI. I've speed tested both numerous times, and MI is easily a good 3 megs better than Windstream during the day.
Just for information purposes. Not trying to tell you what product to buy.
David,
I appreciate the input. I tried Windstream once before, installed it myself and got a slightly faster than "dial up" 2mb.
This time the phone sales person promised 5mb. I doubted it but was willing to take a chance....until I found out that they could only do Monday-Friday...and gave me an "appointment" of 8a-5p.
It's not worth burning a vacation day to me so I'll never know.
Anon 3:10 & 3:44:
NC House Bill 2047 gives video service providers the opportunity to bypass the normally lengthy process of applying for a local Cable Franchise. You can thank AT&T for this one.
Now, whether TW decides to lay lines is more of financial decision.
Most folks left Adelphia in the dust for Dish and Direct. All in all they provide a good product at a competitive price. They also offer about 3x as many HD channels as cable companies can provide. NFL Sunday Ticket also is exclusive to Direct; so you've got some stiff competition in place already.
It's an uphill battle my friends.
Dish and Direct pay the town a franchise fee.
MIC pays the town a franchise fee and the GP% goes towards reducing expenses, potentially reducing budget shortfalls which lead to cuts or higher property taxes.
The important thing at this point is making sure that everyone who can choose between MIC and the other providers understands what their choices mean.
It means free market economy -- as it should be
"Speculation is going to be required to forecast subscriber growth, profits and shortfalls, no doubt."
Since when is it gov's job to speculate with our money? Speculation is what got us into this whole mess -- maybe it's time we stop trying to read tea leaves and deal with the situation at hand.
Two Anons said...
"It means free market economy -- as it should be"
Free Market Economy doesn't apply. Not if the owner of a company has a choice between their own business and a competitor. Every dollar we spend on MIC is one less dollar that OUR Town doesn't have to spend to fund a shortfall. MIC's competitors have to borrow or raise rates if they can't cover their costs. We've found that MIC won't do that every time they run short.
"Since when is it gov's job to speculate with our money? Speculation is what got us into this whole mess -- maybe it's time we stop trying to read tea leaves and deal with the situation at hand."
Since the government bought a cable company?
As long as we own a cable company they will never be able to do more than project, speculate, earnings. Just like our Town or any other business during the budgeting process.
We own a cable company?
Then why would we buy cable from another company?
Cause the guys who thought buying it was a bad idea want us to lose money to punish the guys who bought it.
Or they work for Time Warner and are trying to convince us to sell it and lose like 60 or 70 million dollars.
Or they are FOX Tea Baggers who heard that limited gubmint is bad and can't think on their own.
Something like that.
Free Market Economy
Santa drives a sleigh
Big Gubmint is BAD
Ronald Reagan made REALLY GREAT MOVIES
FOX RULES
I don't really know. Sounds dumb.
So, like, I own a doughnut shop.
The Free Market Economy guy thinks that I should go to the doughnut shop down the street because his doughnuts are better and cost 10 cents less.
But, I make a dollar every time I sell a bag of doughnuts. I don't get any money back when I buy doughnuts from the other guy. So, if I'm gonna buy a bag of doughnuts.......wouldn't it be STUPID for me to buy from the other guy?
I think so. Sorry Free Market Guy.
Can you give us the next 10 words?
The Founders NEVER ate doughnuts!!!!!!!!!!
Niether did Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell OUR gubmint to Just Say No to buying doughnut shops.
I didn't say anything about punishing anyone else. I believe I have the right to choose the company I want -- regardless of whether or not the town owns a cable company.
Sorry, I'm not a socialist or into socialism and do not support it in any way, shape, form. You folks want to support it, however you want to justify it, then go right ahead.
MIC has, indeed, raised rates and their outside analyst is suggesting they continue to raise rates. If they don't raise rates they will continue to borrow money from the town reserves.
It's all free market economy. If they want to compete, then they have to step up and make themselves profitable. The only way to do that is to offer a service which is comparable to DirecTv or Dish. The free market is saying no to MIC, as we did with their predecessors.
All,
It has been Holian's running commentary for the past few weeks that we should buy an inferior product because we own the Company.
His view is best summarized by his statement,"Free Market Economy doesn't apply. Not if the owner of a company has a choice between their own business and a competitor. Every dollar we spend on MIC is one less dollar that OUR Town doesn't have to spend to fund a shortfall. MIC's competitors have to borrow or raise rates if they can't cover their costs. We've found that MIC won't do that every time they run short."
Oh really? Isn't MIC borrowing money from Mooresville/ Davidson to cover their shortfalls.
That sure sounds like one of the old USSR Socialist Five Year Plans to me. Buy crap! It is the 'right' thing to do and it will benefit the common good in the long run.
Most of us do not buy into this but Brian is continuing to support this Company line, rah rah BS. Brian, it IS the free market scenario at work and the free market voted with their dollars.
If you read some of his early posts, he actually recommended selling MIC. I guess he has been 'educated' along the way.
"The free market is saying no to MIC!"
And where is Green and why is he not telling these people to stop calling names!!! By his lack of commenting he is condoning this behavior (note satire).
Some people are always looking to blame others for their mistakes. Big gubment (is that how we say it around here?) is now trying to get us to stop blaming them, and some on blame non MIC customers as part of the problem.
Green never told anyone to stop calling anyone names, silly. Not if they agree with him and the rest of the limited gubmint Tea Party types :)
Larry Green is happy to see you engaged in the discussion. Standing up to big gubmint.
Have a pork samich :)
Anonymous said...
"All, It has been Holian's running commentary for the past few weeks that we should buy an inferior product because we own the Company."
That's right.
"His view is best summarized by his statement,"Free Market Economy doesn't apply. Not if the owner of a company has a choice between their own business and a competitor. Every dollar we spend on MIC is one less dollar that OUR Town doesn't have to spend to fund a shortfall. MIC's competitors have to borrow or raise rates if they can't cover their costs. We've found that MIC won't do that every time they run short."
Oh really? Isn't MIC borrowing money from Mooresville/ Davidson to cover their shortfalls."
MIC has been receiving subsidies from the Town. Money collected from us in property taxes. So they could avoid more rate increases. Dish and Direct, if they borrow, will likely have to pay back their loans.
"That sure sounds like one of the old USSR Socialist Five Year Plans to me. Buy crap! It is the 'right' thing to do and it will benefit the common good in the long run."
You can pay a dollar for cable, that we own, and you might not see your property taxes go up. Or you can spend a dollar for service from a competitor of MIC and run a greater risk of paying another dollar in increased property taxes.
The doughnut shop example explained it pretty well.
"Most of us do not buy into this but Brian is continuing to support this Company line, rah rah BS."
Most of us? You have polling data? Or are you speaking for yourself?
"If you read some of his early posts, he actually recommended selling MIC. I guess he has been 'educated' along the way."
I've said that we should find the facts and make a rational decision about selling MIC or keeping it. And that we should buy from MIC, which we own, rather than services from a company that won't save us money. Since we own MIC.
"Brian, it IS the free market scenario at work and the free market voted with their dollars."
"The free market is saying no to MIC!"
There is no free market with regard to MIC and their competitors. You might like there to be. You may even think that there is.
But, if anyone who read your posts is curious about your lack of understanding of The Free Market, and would like to avoid the utter ignorance expressed in your statements, they can read something factual here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Year_Plans_for_the_National_Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#The_First_Plan.2C_1928.E2.80.931932
I don't think suggesting that we buy service from a company we own sounds like a Five Year Plan, but, we're all entitled to our opinions.
I am not a huge fan of wikipedia, but since that's the source you used I'll use this link describing my perception on that phrase.
While I would agree with you, Brian, that this is not a 100% pure free market system due to various regulations, I think the comment about a free market concept is valid and very much to the point. The data supports the fact that more people choose DirecTV and Dish over MIC(and it's predecessors).
It seems to me that the arguments that failure to support MIC will negatively impact taxes and available services is directly related to some form of government coercion. Yes, I know -- I'm probably talking about big "gubmint", but that's what we're doing here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
Brian, thanks for the link to the wikipedia article on the 5 year plan. While you're right, these plans don't specifically relate directly to the situation of MIC, there are some concerns presented within the cited article, which might merit further exploration, particularly: "Because meeting the goals of the five-year plans had top priority as a measure of progress toward a communist utopia, official lying about productivity became part of the economic system."
The ToM has a top priorty of increasing the customer base for MIC, official lying about productivity and customer base could well be linked to the MIC situation.
Larry Green said...
"It seems to me that the arguments that failure to support MIC will negatively impact taxes and available services is directly related to some form of government coercion."
I agree with you. To date, I think the Mayor of Davidson's comments have been the most direct, but, the message overall is pretty clear.
We can all be appalled by the fact that we own a cable company. And we can be angry that our choice isn't between providers, but, to either support the company that we own or face increases in property taxes.
I prefer to see that as an understanding of the facts and of our situation, not as a Socialist view or even as support of MIC.
Your position, that we sell it now, is worth exploring. My position is still that we give the CAP the opportunity to present us with all of the facts before making a decision.
I don't really have a problem with CAP, though I do believe there is a high liklihood that the ToM will attempt to use them as a PR tool for MIC. I think the more transparent the process, the better for everyone.
Direct quote from a Holian post in February!
"I have to tell you, I agree buying MIC was a bad idea. I think considering selling it makes sense"
Me thinks he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
After telling this lie:
"If you read some of his early posts, he actually recommended selling MIC. I guess he has been 'educated' along the way."
You attempted to support it with this quote:
"I have to tell you, I agree buying MIC was a bad idea. I think considering selling it makes sense"
I don't know what lying to discredit posts I make under a pen name serve you, but, you should stop doing it.
As anyone else can clearly see, I said that considering selling MIC made sense. I still think that considering selling it makes sense. Which is why I told Pastor Green that his desire to sell it now was worth exploring. However, I also think that we should consider holding on to MIC until 2017. Or until the CAP tells us which course makes the most sense financially, or presents us with something else to consider.
For your particular benefit:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/considering
BH,
No need to get defensive.
I'm afraid that if that read as defensive that I was too polite.
Granted, this report is from a conservative think tank, but it is interesting to see Mooresville is now #2 in the state in "local government cost per person".
http://www.johnlocke.org/press_releases/display_story.html?id=536
And no, before the "Anon" flamers attack....those who know me will tell you I'm not a "Standing up to big gubmint, Have a pork samich" person....
Thanks for the link, Jim.
Great article. Thanks for the link.
Jim - I think the big gubmint, have a pork sambich comment is reserved for me.
I getting kind of full of pork though -- can we switch it to chicken or hambuger or something else?
"Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:281
nice try, but this was Jefferson's response to Wendover regarding preaching politics from the pulpit:
written on March 13, 1815, Jefferson examined the other side of the matter declaring that the interference of the church in affairs of state, under the guise of political sermons, is equally menacing. --
and then later in the letter says, On one question only I differ from him, and it is that which constitutes the subject of his first discourse, the right of discussing public affairs in the pulpit. I add the last words, because I admit the right in general conversation and in writing; in which last form it has been exercised in the valuable book you have now favored me with.
Finally, and most importantly, Jefferson very clearly says this: I agree, too, that on all other occasions, the preacher has the right, equally with every other citizen, to express his sentiments, in speaking or writing, on the subjects of medicine, law, politics, etc., his leisure time being his own, and his congregation not obliged to listen to his conversation or to read his writings; and no one would have regretted more than myself, had any scruple as to this right withheld from us the valuable discourses which have led to the expression of an opinion as to the true limits of the right.
So ends today's history lesson.
for those who care to read Jefferson's comments for yourself: http://www.britannica.com/presidents/article-9116916
So ends today's history lesson? Hardly.
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21
Preachers talk, on the pulpit or otherwise, and those who follow them, faithfully, or due to inherent intellectual weakness, listen.
As a 'Man of God' and as a citizen, in America, the preacher enjoys the same freedom of speech as anyone, however, to pretend that they enjoy no influence over the minds of the members of their congregation when straying from the pulpit is false and foolish and fanciful.
Freedom of speech, like the right to bear arms, is a right that should be taken seriously and not abused.
As long as Americans embrace myths and legends, and look up to Gods and demi-Gods for guidance and 'knowledge', those who set themselves before them, on a pulpit, or a stump, are responsible for the words they sow and the actions that result.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president, Drafted Declaration of Independence, Signer of Constitution, influential on 1st Amendment
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." --Thomas Jefferson
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." --Thomas Jefferson
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."--Thomas Jefferson[Notes on Virginia]
so you have a problem with religion and think that religious leaders have no voice in public ... who cares?
Get back onto the subject.
Go back to your pork samich and let the grownups talk :)
Would you have a problem with Larry influencing the ignorant sheep who hand him money on Sunday if he supported the Board of Commissioners?
I think flying planes into a building was a faith-based initiative. I think religion is a neurological disorder. -- Bill Maher
Oh, are these grownups talking?
Bill Maher is a funny guy :)
He's on cable, too.
You really should put those Jeffersonian quotes into context. You're as bas as one of the Bible-thumpers who chooses particular verses which appear only to support their particular religious beliefs.
The letter to Alexander von Humboldt is speaking directly to the Spanish constitution which demands Catholicism as THE official state religion. Jefferson's point was that the designation of a state religious limited any religious freedom and forced people to support dogmas and ideologies with which they did not agree.
I'm assuming the ramblings in the middle are your personal thoughts/opinions, to which you are welcome. I think them to be a bit odd, especially the focus upon the preacher having "control" over the minds of people. I go to church regularly and have no problem disagreeing with what the Priest says. I have the ability to think for myself and to make decisions for myself. And I know many others who have the same abilities.
If you're going to use Jefferson as the basis for your anti-religion, anti-preacher arguments then atleast put his views into context. He was fighting for the ability for individuals to make up their own mind regarding issues of religion, faith, and government. He lived in a time when the vast majority of the people had little to no education and in which religious institutions had excessive powers, which they abused.
I hope the adults in this conversation can discuss MIC without the flamers attempting to distract us and return us into a discussion of pork samiches.
Since your entire rambling post didn't benefit from quotation marks, it's safe to assume they're your words and don't belong to someone else?
Context aside, these comments by Jefferson seem to stand nicely on their own:
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." --Thomas Jefferson
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." --Thomas Jefferson
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."--Thomas Jefferson[Notes on Virginia]
"He lived in a time when the vast majority of the people had little to no education and in which religious institutions had excessive powers, which they abused." -- Anon
Today we live in a time when the vast majority of the people have little or no education and in which religious institutions have excessive powers, including political influence, which they abuse. No quotation marks. You can assume I wrote this.
Here's your pork samich.
You want to talk about MIC?
"Anonymous said...I go to church regularly and have no problem disagreeing with what the Priest says. I have the ability to think for myself and to make decisions for myself. And I know many others who have the same abilities."
If you believe in Santa/Jesus you don't have the ability to think for yourself :)
Yeah, let's get back on topic.
MIC is the work of the debil and we should sell it, sell it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Lord put it on my spirit to go down to Town Hall and tell all them big gubmint types how only raising taxes on the poor and giving big tax breaks to the rich and keeping churches tax exempt, taking away voting rights from women and baby making people, and letting the poor starve unless they bring their rice bowl to the back door of the church to beg properly can return us to the nation The Founding White Men intended.
They didn't listen :(
If we assume that there are 8,000 houses in Mooresville, up a bit from 7,841 reported in 2008, then the $70,000,000.00 that Larry and the limited government folks would only account for about $8,000.00 in increased property taxes for 1 year.
Larry, you talked me into it. Let's give MIC away for $30 million and pay the $8,000.00. Can you talk to your friends on the Board and get that worked out?
You've got Carney, Herring, Abraham, Thurman and Rhett all lined up, right?
Thanks a bunch.
It would be better to lose $8,000.00 per house now, rather than wait.
Sell it, sell it now.
I've put the whole thing into the hands of the Lord. Have a Blessed day.
And I carefully rested the matter on top of His Blessed Tivo, hoping He would look upon it between Law And Order and The Simpsons, granting guidance to the 'idiots' in local gubmint who have placed We The People into the hands of Satan's cable bidness and send those dirty sumbitches straight to Hell.
Amen. And Amen.
Green, you have really ruffled some feathers. I guess the axiom is true that when you don't have anything substantial to refute facts you can attack those who try to give facts.
This from the Carolinaweekly: http://www.carolinaweeklynewspapers.com/story/20100219/town-board-turns-attention-real-estate-signs
• Commissioners grilled Steve Miller, the town’s representative on the board of MI-Connection, the Internet-cable-phone company owned by Mooresville and Davidson that also serves thousands of Cornelius residents. Cornelius board members congratulated themselves on their earlier decision not to share in ownership of the bankrupt Adelphia franchise.
Wait just a second. Did Mr. Green have a fact?
Sell it, sell it now is based on something other than fear? Show me, show me :)
Green, I hope you continue to ignore these folks. All they're interested in is smoke and mirrors to try and divert the conversation away from MIC's financial situation and limited growth area.
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